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Nafe: Free Tibet!

Oooooh. Free Tibet, huh? Ok, I'll take it.
"Hello, China? I have something you may want... but it'll cost ya. That's right. -All- the tea."
(Heh. Sorry. Just had to do it. :D )
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Nafe: Free Tibet!
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AlphaMonkey: Oooooh. Free Tibet, huh? Ok, I'll take it.
"Hello, China? I have something you may want... but it'll cost ya. That's right. -All- the tea."
(Heh. Sorry. Just had to do it. :D )

I think the guy from City Wok already gave me all th shitty chicken I want for it...
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AlphaMonkey: Oooooh. Free Tibet, huh? Ok, I'll take it.
"Hello, China? I have something you may want... but it'll cost ya. That's right. -All- the tea."
(Heh. Sorry. Just had to do it. :D )

lol - love Family Guy :D.
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Nafe: I've seen an awful lot of anti-fat jokes in the media and it seems to be generally far more acceptable. Perhaps it's an attitude that weight is self inflicted and thus it's OK to attack it.

The most fun thing is that actually working to change it is seen as more humourous than worthy of respect
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Nafe: All this has thrown up an interesting thing. I think it's possible the severity of the discrimination against homosexuals is greater than that which is chucked against overweight people, but it's FAR more acceptable in society to discriminate against weight than it is against sexuality.
Those who are gay may well disagree with this assessment, but I think that overall sensible people will agree that attacking sexuality is a pretty fucked up thing to do. I've seen an awful lot of anti-fat jokes in the media and it seems to be generally far more acceptable. Perhaps it's an attitude that weight is self inflicted and thus it's OK to attack it. I dunno, either way It does seem to be far more acceptable to have a go at fat people. A scene in Men In Black suddenly springs to mind - Will Smith's character chases down that alien at the start and the overweight and aggressive (so we find it easier to hate him) cop gets out of breath. Back at the station there's a bit of an argument between them and Smith makes a couple of fat jokes. Imagine if that cop was gay and he made a couple of homophobic jokes - there's just no way it would happen.
I wouldn't even begin to attempt to work out what's worse, I think that'd be a pretty pointless exercise. As a former fat bloke I'm all too aware of how acceptable people have found it to have a go.
I've kinda forgotten what my point was so urm. Free Tibet!

So, still not a lot of time but I will try my best to keep up with the discussion.
Media is not often overtly homophobic though I would not consider TV and hollywood allies. And I am a bit surprised you do not notice loud and constant homophobia among the commoners. Perhaps your neighborhood is just the best in the world. In fact, a study (I can't reference at the moment) found 'gay' is the most common insult among youth. To be honest, I'm not sure where 'fat' appears on the list, though it likely is quite high. It is all very unfortunate and people should be nicer to each other. The overweight community should be more vocal about the pain they endure. They can get their friends and families to help too since they generally don't lose friends and family when someone discovers they are fat. Maybe if the suicide rate of overweight people was six times greater than any other group, the good folks in the gog forums (and the internet at large) could tell the uppity fatties to lighten up, it's no big deal: I don't go around announcing I'm skinny and gorgeous.
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Darling_Jimmy: Media is not often overtly homophobic though I would not consider TV and hollywood allies. And I am a bit surprised you do not notice loud and constant homophobia among the commoners. Perhaps your neighborhood is just the best in the world. In fact, a study (I can't reference at the moment) found 'gay' is the most common insult among youth. To be honest, I'm not sure where 'fat' appears on the list, though it likely is quite high.

The list of common insulting words we youths say are:
Sexual Oriented: Gay/Homo/Dyke/Lesbo/Fag (Less common now, more of a insult to someone's manhood now...).
Physical: Fat/Lard Ass/Toothpick/Twig/Bucktooth/Edge Up (I have no idea what the fuck it means, I go to a ghetto school district don't ask.)/Baby Dick/Negatits (Favorite one =P)/Big Black.
Mental: Retard(ed)(s)/Stupid Ass/Dumbshit (Another favorite.)
Racial: N****(I don't even use this word.)/Cracker (It means from Oregon you dumb ghetto kids, not white person. Stop making up slang.)/Honky (???)/Slanted Eyes (Asian race comment)/Porch Monkey (I use it when I am EXTREMELY mad.).
Other (IE: Just something ignorant.): Pretty much every word up there.
THERE. That is every derogatory term we youths use.
And the media is never any help.
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Darling_Jimmy: The overweight community should be more vocal about the pain they endure.

That just ends up making you look whiny and fat.
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Darling_Jimmy: They can get their friends and families to help too since they generally don't lose friends and family when someone discovers they are fat.

If someone comes out and loses friends, that means they didn't have friends, they had acquaintances. A friend is someone who sticks with you through anything and anyone else isn't worth the effort.
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Darling_Jimmy: Maybe if the suicide rate of overweight people was six times greater than any other group, the good folks in the gog forums (and the internet at large) could tell the uppity fatties to lighten up

Has there been data on the suicide rates relating to weight? Or indeed has the suicide data for gay people been analysed to determine if being gay &/or persecution was a causal factor or if the fact their gay is only a coincidence
Post edited August 17, 2009 by Aliasalpha
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Darling_Jimmy: So, still not a lot of time but I will try my best to keep up with the discussion.
Media is not often overtly homophobic though I would not consider TV and hollywood allies. And I am a bit surprised you do not notice loud and constant homophobia among the commoners. Perhaps your neighborhood is just the best in the world. In fact, a study (I can't reference at the moment) found 'gay' is the most common insult among youth.

True though that may be, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. I can see that it'd hurt your feelings but kids using "gay" as an insult doesn't mean that they have a problem with homosexuality. It's become such a common word that I think it's lost some of its meaning. Like I said, when people say bastard, I very much doubt they're actually accusing someone of having unwed parents and thus are worthy of ridicule. However, when people say things like "you fat cunt" it genuinely is linked to weight.
Like I said before, I'm not interested in trying to work out which one is worse, that would be a massive waste of time, but I think it's clear that they're *different*. You also may have a point, where I live might well have something to do with it, but it has been my experience that while genuine hatred of homosexuality is not OK, the same can't always be said for hatred of fatness.
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Nafe: However, when people say things like "you fat cunt" it genuinely is linked to weight.

Yes, as opposed to "you cunt", which has no weight-related word in it.
"Gay" as an insult is probably related to "suck" (with which we seldom actually mean to give fellatio), though which one entered the general insults first and subsequently gave entrance to the other I do not know. I'd say that the latter word came first, because it'd be very humiliating for a heterosexual guy to be forced to do just that, and subsequently be called "gay" because of the implied action.
An interesting phenomenon is "phat", though stemming from the meaning of obesity (and pronounced in the same way), it very seldom has a bad meaning, it's either good or simply exaggerating ("a lot of the good stuff", or whatever).
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Nafe: I can see that it'd hurt your feelings but kids using "gay" as an insult doesn't mean that they have a problem with homosexuality. It's become such a common word that I think it's lost some of its meaning. Like I said, when people say bastard, I very much doubt they're actually accusing someone of having unwed parents and thus are worthy of ridicule.

My slice of the planet is not the most socially progressive of places, not quite the american south of the stereotypes but its far from an unrealistic cultural nirvana where people are treated with respect, dignity and fairness. Even HERE you really don't hear homophobia voiced that often. I think its pretty much gotten to the point where noone really gives a fuck about it, in much the same way that unwed parents aren't even worthy of comment anymore
Don't feel victimised. This ad makes a good point. An excellent point in fact.
So no, there's nothing wrong with this ad at all. I totally agree - gamers (specifically the kind of gamer it's referring to) are complete dicks. THEY'RE the ones who need to toughen up and get a thicker skin.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/8/17/true-face-our-enemy/
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Aliasalpha: I think its pretty much gotten to the point where noone really gives a fuck about it, in much the same way that unwed parents aren't even worthy of comment anymore

Additionally, I don't think those conceived in such situations are offended by the term "bastard" any more since it has taken on an entirely new meaning just as gay has.
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TheJoe: Don't feel victimised. This ad makes a good point. An excellent point in fact.
So no, there's nothing wrong with this ad at all. I totally agree - gamers (specifically the kind of gamer it's referring to) are complete dicks. THEY'RE the ones who need to toughen up and get a thicker skin.

No, they need to stop desperately trying to be tough and get a BRAIN
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Aliasalpha: I think its pretty much gotten to the point where noone really gives a fuck about it, in much the same way that unwed parents aren't even worthy of comment anymore
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Arkose: Additionally, I don't think those conceived in such situations are offended by the term "bastard" any more since it has taken on an entirely new meaning just as gay has.

Linguistic evolution is the source of a lot of annoying things, I've grown so very tired of explaining to people why shakespeare comedies aren't funny
Post edited August 17, 2009 by Aliasalpha
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Darling_Jimmy: So, still not a lot of time but I will try my best to keep up with the discussion.
Media is not often overtly homophobic though I would not consider TV and hollywood allies. And I am a bit surprised you do not notice loud and constant homophobia among the commoners. Perhaps your neighborhood is just the best in the world. In fact, a study (I can't reference at the moment) found 'gay' is the most common insult among youth.
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Nafe: True though that may be, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. I can see that it'd hurt your feelings but kids using "gay" as an insult doesn't mean that they have a problem with homosexuality. It's become such a common word that I think it's lost some of its meaning. Like I said, when people say bastard, I very much doubt they're actually accusing someone of having unwed parents and thus are worthy of ridicule. However, when people say things like "you fat cunt" it genuinely is linked to weight.
Like I said before, I'm not interested in trying to work out which one is worse, that would be a massive waste of time, but I think it's clear that they're *different*. You also may have a point, where I live might well have something to do with it, but it has been my experience that while genuine hatred of homosexuality is not OK, the same can't always be said for hatred of fatness.

Although I disagree with just about your entire post, you come across most diplomatic in this instance so I will continue to respond to your comments.
The notion that "gay" as an insult has parted from the homosexual definition is far too hopeful. It would not be an insult used to mean anything if not for a disdain of gays. It often still perpetuates the fallacy that heterosexual males are alphas while gays are - as Member of Parliament, Tom Lukiwski, said; "the B's are homosexual faggots with dirt on their fingernails that transmit diseases."
So not only must you live in the nicest neighborhood in the world, but under a rock as well. Last year, the US had it's presidential election. At the same time, the majority of California voters stripped away the rights of gays and lesbians. Florida also stripped away rights of gays and lesbians, reversing even the right of adoption, actually splitting up families. Initiatives funded and orchestrated by religious institutions, carried out politically and supported socially. The effects of these high profile events have spread through Canada. There has since been a substantial increase in gay bashings. A local radio poll revealed 54% of voters disapprove of same sex marriage even though it is legal. A spokesperson for the VPD recently announced that the vast majority of hate crimes concern the GLBT and Jewish communities. Etc, etc, etc.
To summarize: homophobia is alive and well and I am baffled that you can't see it. If anyone would like to share some stats on the plights of fat people, knock yourself out, but I don't appreciate the attempts to minimize the circumstances facing the GLBT community.
Over & out.