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dtgreene: I'd still like a *reliable* source for this information, preferably a scientific source.
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Canuck_Cat: https://www.ifixit.com/News/31716/how-to-care-for-your-laptops-battery-so-it-lasts-longer
https://www.csmonitor.com/Technology/Tech/2014/0103/40-80-rule-New-tip-for-extending-battery-life

Both source Cadex Electronics and Battery University. Treat it the same way as your smartphone. Keep it between 40-80%.
Please don't post a link that uses up one of the user's free articles on a site without a clear warning that the link will do that. (The second link has this issue.)

(Actually, I would prefer if you wouldn't link to such sites *at all* (a link like that should not have a side effect of that sort), but failing that, at least provide a warning.)
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dtgreene: Please don't post a link that uses up one of the user's free articles on a site without a clear warning that the link will do that. (The second link has this issue.)

(Actually, I would prefer if you wouldn't link to such sites *at all* (a link like that should not have a side effect of that sort), but failing that, at least provide a warning.)
Sorry, unaware and only linked because the first link referred to it. FYI, you can circumvent these limited articles in the future by opening the link in a private browser. And then zapping them away with uBlock Origin.
Post edited June 02, 2021 by Canuck_Cat
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dtgreene: I'd still like a *reliable* source for this information, preferably a scientific source.
I did a bit of search a few years ago on the subject, for a project. I don't have my external hard drive with me and may be a few days until I do but anyway, a fast search brought some papers and this was one of those I had read:

https://search4.nrel.gov/texis/search/?pr=metanrel&query=battery+wear

1st result pdf named: "Battery Wear from Disparate Duty-Cycles".

As stated on previous post, Battery University, while not the best source for info, is still ok to read general concepts:

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

It's well known that Lithium-ion batteries have a diferent charge/discharge profile from Ni-MH and Lead-Acid, latter 2 don't mind being slight overcharged (trikle charged) while the former absolutelly do mind. Tesla under-charge (and under-discharge) the car batteries to prolong life and to get more consistent charges over the battery life, no reference on this, sorry.

Too long of a off-topic already...



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pds41: I hate touch controls on tablets for playing games, so my vote is "that's wrong on so many levels"!
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dtgreene: I could see some games, like Dungeon Master and perhaps The Quest, working well on touch screens. (Dungeon Master I believe can be played with just one mouse button, so it should work with a big enough tablet, and I believe The Quest was originally written for a touchscreen device.)
Games I played recently using touch: Into the Breach, Full Throttle Remastered, X-Com Enemy Within, Fell Seal, Talisman and Battle Brothers.
Last one is a little cumbersome to play (although possible) and a wireless mouse is indeed prefered, wich I use, otherwise a controller. I don't play using controller like touch controls, those are awful on a tablet.

Even today I had to wait 30min in the car, so I brought the tablet and the 8bitdo Zero and had a blast playing Metal Slug for the 1996 time travel thread. Eat that, desktop users :P
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Canuck_Cat: Both source Cadex Electronics and Battery University. Treat it the same way as your smartphone. Keep it between 40-80%.
As far as I know Cadex founder is the same person who writes on Battery University.

Also, keep the battery cool while charging, eat kills Lithium-ion batteries fast! (and is dangerous)
Post edited June 03, 2021 by Dark_art_
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dtgreene: ...
Alot of posts here and i see something about batteries. First off, let's address the elephant in the room: if you're using Lions (Lithium Ion) you're better off only using that as emergency power. The more that thing's drained, the more it'll bloat, catch fire, or just not maintain a charge anymore. Those things last longer the less you actually use them (as long as fully charged). If you don't mind buying new batteries, then by all means focus on SSDs, 'cause they're cheaper on electricity. There'll be some variance, but the question of how practical this variance is, well, consider too why it might vary (does it not hold as much charge in the memory cells and thus have a shorter life span for written files?). While i don't have a wide range of experience with SSDs, I doubt it's actually a practical matter.

For size of drives, i look at the target drive and i graph out (either on paper or, moreoften, in my head) the average price of drives per size. Eventually, you'll hit a big curv up, and, since i want the best bang for my buck, i basically pick the biggest one before the curve. You'll get this for RAM and other hardware, too. You are basically figuring out the base cost for brand, etc, then actually find out what the cost per GB or TB, then find out what drives violate that function you wrote and figure out of it's really worth it.
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Dark_art_: Sorry for the slight off-topic but is generally accepted that typical lithium batteries don't like to be fully charged or discharged, unlike lead acid (cars) or nimh (AA re-chargeable).
Thanks for the info.

Well it seems the discharging was the culprit....as back when the battery was kept plugged in and kept at/near 100% more it didn't have nearly as much wear. As such, I will try to keep it plugged in via an extension cord(to give me the reach I need to keep it plugged in while not gaming at my desk) from now on.
Post edited June 03, 2021 by GamezRanker
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Canuck_Cat: Treat it the same way as your smartphone. Keep it between 40-80%.
According to another gogger i've talked to on the matter, letting such batteries discharge too much/too often is bad(so definitely keep them above 40% or maybe even 50%), but the overcharging thing doesn't seem to have much to back it up.

One thing to contemplate: if it was a bad idea to charge them above 80%, why wouldn't the manufacturers put limiters on them to keep them from charging beyond 80%[like they already do to prevent batteries from going over 100%]?

Also from personal experience I have found that keeping such batteries at 100%(by keeping it plugged into a charger) does hardly any wear(under 5k mwh lost capacity in a little over a year) compared to letting them discharge below a certain level(around 15k mwh lost capacity in around 6 months).
Post edited June 03, 2021 by GamezRanker
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GamezRanker: According to another gogger i've talked to on the matter, letting such batteries discharge too much/too often is bad(so definitely keep them above 40% or maybe even 50%), but the overcharging thing doesn't seem to have much to back it up.
[Limited trial source] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/04/smarter-living/phone-charging-advice.html

“The lithium ion needs some space in the electrodes and the electrode has to make this space, and because of the stress,” Mr. de Vries said, “the electrodes will gradually degrade and that is also then a loss of capacity in the battery.”

“It’s pretty easy to fill a sponge from dry to mostly saturated,” said Mr. Purdy, who is also a former senior staff writer for Wirecutter. “But trying to force a nearly saturated sponge to absorb the very last drops of liquid requires pressure and likely leaves more liquid pooled on the surface. That ‘pooling’ is the S.E.I. (solid electrolytic interface) buildup on a battery. S.E.I. buildup reduces the overall capacity of a battery.”
More info on SEI: https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/bu_808b_what_causes_li_ion_to_die

One thing to contemplate: if it was a bad idea to charge them above 80%, why wouldn't the manufacturers put limiters on them to keep them from charging beyond 80%[like they already do to prevent batteries from going over 100%]?
Possible reasons:

1. If one manufacturer capped their battery capacity at 80% while the others don't, people will simply buy the product with 100% capacity unlocked for the convenience and the 80% battery product will fail unless other factors are compensating.
2. Most people are either unaware or don't care about the long-term battery life. That's the next owner's problem.
3. Obsessing over life cycle charges isn't worth the hassle for some people. $75 labour + $40 OEM-equivalent battery is every 3-4 years is quite affordable. Some recommend 2 years, but it depends on how necessary and often you need your phone.

I use AccuBattery (Android) to tell me when to charge my phone and when to unplug. It gets annoying sometimes, though. You could probably just get a smart wireless charger that'll regulate its charging speed based on the battery capacity.
Post edited June 03, 2021 by Canuck_Cat
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Tistonic: there's no different from M.2 to NVME, they r a version and interface attachment name.
according to lenovo hardware manuel you're laptop doesn't support these storage devices page 30~31
That's not strictly speaking correct. M.2 is the form factor (it's NGFF), whereas NVMe is the logical device interface for M.2 PCIe SSDs. M.2 as a form factor can support PCIe (currently to 4.0), Serial ATA 3.0 and USB 3.0. The host module determines which interface is supported.

My understanding is that the 110s range includes a M.2 port that supports the Serial ATA interface. I've seen a video of someone swapping out the gumsticks on that laptop range.
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Canuck_Cat: I use AccuBattery (Android) to tell me when to charge my phone and when to unplug. It gets annoying sometimes, though. You could probably just get a smart wireless charger that'll regulate its charging speed based on the battery capacity.
That's why i'm just gonna let it charge to 100%, and only prevent it from going under 50% or so.....as I said: my battery's wear data/other info indicated that the most wear came from letting the battery discharge too much and too many times rather than keeping it at 100% all the time(5k mwh a year wear from normal use and keeping it charged to 100% vs. 15k mwh every 6 months wear from letting it discharge under 25% frequently).

Also clarification: I meant a laptop battery, not a phone....though it's still the same battery type(Lion).
(I also linked a useful site below for news articles)

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Also for those who need such to read news articles:

Archive today allows one to read any article they want...even beyond the limits of a particular news site, and also without ads.

The NyTimes story linked by Cat in Post 52, for example, can be found here
Post edited June 03, 2021 by GamezRanker
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I tried clicking that link, but it seems one needs a subscripting to view the article.

“The lithium ion needs some space in the electrodes and the electrode has to make this space, and because of the stress,” Mr. de Vries said, “the electrodes will gradually degrade and that is also then a loss of capacity in the battery.”
Why's it not there by default, then?

“It’s pretty easy to fill a sponge from dry to mostly saturated,” said Mr. Purdy, who is also a former senior staff writer for Wirecutter. “But trying to force a nearly saturated sponge to absorb the very last drops of liquid requires pressure and likely leaves more liquid pooled on the surface. That ‘pooling’ is the S.E.I. (solid electrolytic interface) buildup on a battery. S.E.I. buildup reduces the overall capacity of a battery.”
It's interphase, not interface. And this phenomena is caused by excessive discharge. I'm still looking for evidence for this at "overcharge." Instead, what i'm reading here is that this is caused simply by charging it at all, not charging beyond certain ranges or maintaining a certain charge above a certain range. It stands to reason that one could extend the life more effeciently but not allowing the charge to change much if at all. However, occasionally draining the battery to a certain degree can somewhat undo the effect, as well. Skimming the article i don't see these quotes. Nor do i see anything on overcharge except for the comments.

One thing to contemplate: if it was a bad idea to charge them above 80%, why wouldn't the manufacturers put limiters on them to keep them from charging beyond 80%[like they already do to prevent batteries from going over 100%]?
Possible reasons:

1. If one manufacturer capped their battery capacity at 80% while the others don't, people will simply buy the product with 100% capacity unlocked for the convenience and the 80% battery product will fail unless other factors are compensating.
Write custom driver or simply design the circuit to report as 100% at 80%. We already have things setting on the battery to prevent genuine overcharge.
2. Most people are either unaware or don't care about the long-term battery life. That's the next owner's problem.
This isn't addressing the actual question.
3. Obsessing over life cycle charges isn't worth the hassle for some people. $75 labour + $40 OEM-equivalent battery is every 3-4 years is quite affordable. Some recommend 2 years, but it depends on how necessary and often you need your phone.
Still not addressing why the manufactuer isn't making this convenient.
I use AccuBattery (Android) to tell me when to charge my phone and when to unplug. It gets annoying sometimes, though. You could probably just get a smart wireless charger that'll regulate its charging speed based on the battery capacity.
This is another angle: why aren't there external plug-based chargers if this can be done with wireless charging? And, also, we're not exclusively talking about phones, here.
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Tistonic: there's no different from M.2 to NVME, they r a version and interface attachment name.
according to lenovo hardware manuel you're laptop doesn't support these storage devices page 30~31
Please edit your post, because it is wrong.

M.2. / 2.5 inch / 3.5 inch are form factors.

M.2. can have different logical interfaces. SATA is one, NVMe is another.

M.2. with NVMe is a PCI Express interface (graphics cards and other expansion cards also use PCI Express). So it is not just for SSDs but other expansion cards too.
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pds41: Home networks are such a dark art. I'd run a test with my Pi, but I'm not going to be on the same network that the Pi is on for a few weeks, so I can't really check transfer rates (plus, I'm basically using a large memory stick as a storage device on it, so might not be the best test). I've never really used it as a storage or streaming solution though, so haven't really thought about the transfer rates (having a dedicated NAS, I just use that). It's also fully wired in to the network (I only really use wifi on my phone, laptop or tablets).
After some testing, I guess the main culprit is wifi congestion. When I performed scp copying from the Raspberry Pi4 to my Win10 SSD laptop (both connected with a LAN cable), I think I got at least 200Mbit/s transfer speed. Pretty good considering the file was coming from an old USB 2.0 HDD connected to the RPi4 USB2.0 port etc.

With the older 2.4GHz wifi, at best I got something like 50Mbit/s transfer speed when the laptop was two meters away from the wifi router. I guess I just had unrealistic expectations what kind of transfer speeds I could get over the older 2.4GHz wifi standard...

Trying the same with the newer 5GHz wifi (using either 80 or 40 MHz bandwidth) there was odd behavior: at first it would start out quite fast (like 200Mbit/s), but after a few minutes, or even earlier, the speed would suddenly drop to very low speeds, even to measly 50kbytes/s or so, and stay there too for the rest of the file transfer.

I have no idea what that is about, a real bummer. While the older 2.4GHz wifi (at 20MHz bandwidth) gives much slower speed (up to 50 Mbits/s), at least it stays there all the time.

Since I have computers and other electronic devices (tablets, Chromecast etc.) in several rooms quite far from the router, most of them are connected through wifi (the router, a cable modem, is in my living room). Not going to draw and install 30-40 meter LAN cables so that they can reach some laptop in the bedroom...

I guess I just have to deal with this, and if I don't want to wait for some very big file transfer over the wifi, I guess I just need to transfer it using the old methods, big USB memory sticks or USB HDDs...
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timppu: I guess I just have to deal with this, and if I don't want to wait for some very big file transfer over the wifi, I guess I just need to transfer it using the old methods, big USB memory sticks or USB HDDs...
Or, you could just move one device closer to the other, and connect them with an ethernet cable to do the transfer. (Useful if both devices have ethernet ports and at least one of them is reasonably portable.)
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pds41: Home networks are such a dark art. I'd run a test with my Pi, but I'm not going to be on the same network that the Pi is on for a few weeks, so I can't really check transfer rates (plus, I'm basically using a large memory stick as a storage device on it, so might not be the best test). I've never really used it as a storage or streaming solution though, so haven't really thought about the transfer rates (having a dedicated NAS, I just use that). It's also fully wired in to the network (I only really use wifi on my phone, laptop or tablets).
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timppu: After some testing, I guess the main culprit is wifi congestion. When I performed scp copying from the Raspberry Pi4 to my Win10 SSD laptop (both connected with a LAN cable), I think I got at least 200Mbit/s transfer speed. Pretty good considering the file was coming from an old USB 2.0 HDD connected to the RPi4 USB2.0 port etc.

With the older 2.4GHz wifi, at best I got something like 50Mbit/s transfer speed when the laptop was two meters away from the wifi router. I guess I just had unrealistic expectations what kind of transfer speeds I could get over the older 2.4GHz wifi standard...

Trying the same with the newer 5GHz wifi (using either 80 or 40 MHz bandwidth) there was odd behavior: at first it would start out quite fast (like 200Mbit/s), but after a few minutes, or even earlier, the speed would suddenly drop to very low speeds, even to measly 50kbytes/s or so, and stay there too for the rest of the file transfer.

I have no idea what that is about, a real bummer. While the older 2.4GHz wifi (at 20MHz bandwidth) gives much slower speed (up to 50 Mbits/s), at least it stays there all the time.

Since I have computers and other electronic devices (tablets, Chromecast etc.) in several rooms quite far from the router, most of them are connected through wifi (the router, a cable modem, is in my living room). Not going to draw and install 30-40 meter LAN cables so that they can reach some laptop in the bedroom...

I guess I just have to deal with this, and if I don't want to wait for some very big file transfer over the wifi, I guess I just need to transfer it using the old methods, big USB memory sticks or USB HDDs...
There are just some operations i only do while sleeing or messing with another device. These transfers are one of them.

Still worth looking at, though. Noise? Barriers (dropped packets)? Excessive packets (echos, OneDrive interference, etc)?