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I'm inclined to agree with Amok on that point, I think: crowdfunding is a donation system, not a pre-order system, even when the games are provided as rewards for donations.

I think that if I were to back a project by taking a twenty dollar tier that gained me the game, and the game were later sold for five dollars at launch, I would be unlikely to be upset: I gave away that twenty dollars, and getting the game in return was a bonus, or extra incentive to pick the higher tier over a lower one.

As I said, crowdfunding is similar to patronage, and currently perhaps the closest widespread model to it.

To actually implement patronage, I might imagine a game studio asking people to donate a certain amount (not much--let's say a few dollars each, although I don't know how viable that is) each month. In return, they're given access to a "backer" forum by which they can communicate with the developers, early access to new games, and all released games for no further cost. The produced games would presumably still be sold to non-patrons. Other rewards might be offered as well, especially if there are crowdfunding-style tiers of patronage.

(These rewards are provided with some current crowdfunding campaigns; the main difference is that in the case of patronage this access wouldn't be restricted to a single project, but to all projects as long as the patron continues to provide income.)

(I'm tempted to attempt to do the maths on the viability of patronage, but I don't know what a reasonable monthly income is in America, and we've tended to use American Dollars in this thread--at the least I doubt that a computation in South African Rands would likely be terribly useful to many in this thread besides myself.)

Pinkerton Road tried something similar--albeit not quite the same--I believe; I don't know how well it's working for them, offhand, although I think that their intended waves new funding pushes ("seasons") have faltered a little due to being tied to game releases, the schedules of which slipped.
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BreathingMeat: That's actually quite an interesting point and it reveals yet another motivation for high release prices on some games. Lots of Kickstarter projects sell themselves as a pre-order system, saying if you pay for the game early they'll put your money in to make the game better at release time. The developers will have done their sums and decided that, say, $20 per backer is the best price point for their campaign.

If you pre-order a game at $20 and then find it's $5 on release day, you're going to be a bit miffed. So Kickstarted games owe it to their backers to charge the backer price *at least* on release day.
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amok: Kickstarte != preorder.
Wow, careful with that reflex. You might hurt yourself.

Thing is, there are a good number of KS projects out there that say "This is a pre order system" so you can expect it to be like a pre order system. Some even say "order now and get $5 off the launch price".

Most of the ones I've been involved with tend to keep good faith with their backers by releasing at the backer price and discounting later. I've been involved with some where there has been a tier with beta access. They sell beta keys to the general public as well, but always at the price that backers paid. Developers know that if they break that good faith then they might get a lot less support for their next project.

Obviously some people see if differently. I wouldn't mind if the projects I've backed sold themselves at less than the backer price at launch, but there are so many people that *would* mind that the publisher would have to weigh very carefully whether the shitstorm would be worth it.
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amok: Kickstarte != preorder.
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BreathingMeat: Wow, careful with that reflex. You might hurt yourself.

Thing is, there are a good number of KS projects out there that say "This is a pre order system" so you can expect it to be like a pre order system. Some even say "order now and get $5 off the launch price".

Most of the ones I've been involved with tend to keep good faith with their backers by releasing at the backer price and discounting later. I've been involved with some where there has been a tier with beta access. They sell beta keys to the general public as well, but always at the price that backers paid. Developers know that if they break that good faith then they might get a lot less support for their next project.

Obviously some people see if differently. I wouldn't mind if the projects I've backed sold themselves at less than the backer price at launch, but there are so many people that *would* mind that the publisher would have to weigh very carefully whether the shitstorm would be worth it.
I have not seen a single kickstarter saying that it is a pre-order...

Kickstarter are crowd funding, you are helping funding a project. it really has nothing to do with selling anything. Usually there is a tier where you also get "whatever", but there are many tiers - If you pledge for a project at for $2500 - do you still expect to the "whatever" to sell for less?
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BreathingMeat: Thing is, there are a good number of KS projects out there that say "This is a pre order system"
Well then people leading those project are dishonest bastards and you should not trust them with your money.
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BreathingMeat: Wow, careful with that reflex. You might hurt yourself.

Thing is, there are a good number of KS projects out there that say "This is a pre order system" so you can expect it to be like a pre order system. Some even say "order now and get $5 off the launch price".

Most of the ones I've been involved with tend to keep good faith with their backers by releasing at the backer price and discounting later. I've been involved with some where there has been a tier with beta access. They sell beta keys to the general public as well, but always at the price that backers paid. Developers know that if they break that good faith then they might get a lot less support for their next project.

Obviously some people see if differently. I wouldn't mind if the projects I've backed sold themselves at less than the backer price at launch, but there are so many people that *would* mind that the publisher would have to weigh very carefully whether the shitstorm would be worth it.
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amok: I have not seen a single kickstarter saying that it is a pre-order...

Kickstarter are crowd funding, you are helping funding a project. it really has nothing to do with selling anything.
Usually there is a tier where you also get "whatever", but there are many tiers - If you pledge for a project at for $2500 - do you still expect to the "whatever" to sell for less?
Obviously not, no. There's always a "just the game" tier.

And, as I say, I personally don't expect anything. I only give money to Kickstarter projects if I know I can afford to get nothing at all for it.

My point is that developers are usually reluctant to do things that might make their backers feel like they've been chumped. They know that the bad press and loss of loyalty will bite them when they come to start their next project.
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amok: I have not seen a single kickstarter saying that it is a pre-order...

Kickstarter are crowd funding, you are helping funding a project. it really has nothing to do with selling anything.
Usually there is a tier where you also get "whatever", but there are many tiers - If you pledge for a project at for $2500 - do you still expect to the "whatever" to sell for less?
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BreathingMeat: Obviously not, no. There's always a "just the game" tier.

And, as I say, I personally don't expect anything. I only give money to Kickstarter projects if I know I can afford to get nothing at all for it.

My point is that developers are usually reluctant to do things that might make their backers feel like they've been chumped. They know that the bad press and loss of loyalty will bite them when they come to start their next project.
And yet I have still not seen any Kickstarters saying it is a pre-order.

Kickstarters are funding, and you get some rewards for it also. If you get miffed if a price of a game is less than what you pledged, then kicstarters are not for you.

And several games gone through KS have been on sale for less. Grim Dawn, now for example, is 50% off on Steam - which is less than the smallest pledge on KS. And that is fine, and I do not see much shit storm.

edit -and what FenixP said :)
Post edited June 29, 2014 by amok