Greetings,

Are there any mods/hacks out there which remove the garbage non-TSR rules from NWN and replace them with true AD&D rules (1e or 2e, which are superior and true in every possible way, as compared to the appropriated fake rules made up by WotC?) So far, I have not found anything like this.

I keep going back to the much better SSI and Bioware games which never get old. I keep trying to play NWN, but I just can't get into the inane and regressive ruleset. I am playing Shattered Lands again, and then finishing up yet another playthrough of the Baldur's Gate series, and then will probably jump back into Planescape. I can't even play IWD2 because of this situation (and I guarantee that will NEVER play "Baldur's Gate" 3.) For those who have yet to play them, the older games are superior in many ways, such as being fun and challenging and capturing the joy and spirit of true (A)D&D, and you can transfer your character(s) over multiple series, such as the Pool series, Darksun 1 to 2, the Dragonlance games, etc. They are timeless classics!

Also, remember to check out the OSR, especially if you miss the late 70's to 1999 which was a golden age as compared to the dystopian hellscape we live in, these days.

Thanks!

Well, atleast you have the games you mentioned to replay. But I think if you ever want to expand your library, you need to try out game experiences that's not just AD&D. It can be frustrating to try and find a game that scratches that specific itch, like an addiction you can't get a fix for. But eventually you'll find something new and amazing to play.
However, that will probably never happen if you only want something to play EXACTLY the same as the old dnd ruleset.

The newer systems are fun, easier to learn, and more flexible. You might not find the same type of challenges as the old games, but if you actually try to engage the games for what they are, and not what they're not ,you'll probably find that there is alot to love.

Try starting the second campaign Shadows of Undrentide on a harder difficulty, that could probably help getting you into the game. And something that might remind you of BG 1 a bit.

I have A LOT of RPG games from other companies, spanning the 80's, 90's, and 2000's and up. Most of them have good and bad qualities, and most of them are superior to the WotC ruleset games. It is extremely difficult for me to enjoy games which have been touched by WotC (I hate the company and everything that they stand for, and I truly wish that TSR wouldn't have failed or at least had a better company buy them out.) WotC D&D feels like appropriated and corrupted and bad "fan" fiction, to me. Honestly, I could probably enjoy the games if they didn't have D&D on the label.

However, playing Baldur's Gate 2 and then jumping into a game of NWN feels like having to slam the breaks while entering a 25mph zone in a crappy neighborhood after driving 75mph for a while, while mentally challenged circus clowns run up and down both sidewalks and back and forth across the street in front of the car.

I played AD&D 1st edition as a kid, back in the 1980's, but I like D&D 3.0 in NWN just fine. It captures the feel of the original while being more rational and a lot more flexibility in character builds.

Changing back for 18/percentile strength, negative AC, and other oddities would do nothing to improve NWN as a game except feed a bit of nostalgia for a few old timers.

I know that the best thing one can do when someone is upset is listen to their complaint and not try to "fix" their problems... But you do realise how absurd this statement is right? This is just a short rant that different games are different games, "and they don't make them like they used too!" DnD is just a brand, and brands don't really mean anything in the end. Perhaps try Pathfinder or Divinity Original Sin 2 if you're not satisfied with Dnd.

But I don't really know what to say.
No I don't think there is a mod for changing the ruleset the whole game is built on.
If you want a more challenging game put it on hard.
The first campaign is pretty weak and you don't really gain much by forcing your way through it if you don't like it, but the others are really fun.
Try to find another game if it really isn't working for you.
And try not to stay in the past with your pointless creed against such a stupid thing as "things have changed since ADnD!"

I have tried and tried, and I just keep going back to the pre-WotC games. Telling me that my statement of opinion is absurd serves only to invalidate my opinion by replacing it with your own. I'm not posting, "Don;t play WotC DnD!" I am saying that -I- do not like it at all and was simply seeking a solution which would allow me to have a better chance at enjoying the games that have purchased.

You are free to like what you like, but I think that has less to do with the gaming system and more to do with how these are just completely different games.

I liked BG[&2] a lot, but it's VERY different game from NWN. Many BG fans didn't like NWN, because they wanted more of the same, and it isn't the same. But the big differences are NOT in the D&D systems, it's in the completely different organization and play style.

BG games have full complete party control of a large group, and auto-pause each turn, and a MUCH better story. Battles could also be better balanced for a party expected to have all the character types vs NWN Solo character of any type, meaning the same enounter in NWN had to be written to handle a Solo Fighter, Mage, Rogue, etc...

NWN is more solo with henchman you don't control, and no autopause, and it focused more on being a game engine for the community than including one great story experience.

Those differences affect gameplay MUCH more than if you have 18-Percentile strength or some D&D rule set minutia.

Ultimately if you check polls of "Favorite D&D system". AD&D and AD&D 2nd ed, are very low down the list, so you aren't going to get much push to change systems to AD&D. You get much more people wanting it to switch to D&D 3.5, and even then very little happened. (I think I've seen things like 3.5 Edition Ranger). Indeed I have seen posts like this multiple to times in reference to a 3.5 conversion.

But if no one did a 3.5 makeover, they certainly aren't going to bother for less popular AD&D.

Someone claims to be working on a Pathfinder conversion and module right now and I've added my opinion that changing to Pathfinder is just a waste of time. The systems are close enough as is. Spend your time on Lore, and Story, visuals. Things that really matter.

You may want to check out Pillars of Eternity.
It is closer to the BG series than anything else.

5e is really not that bad. There is a game called Solasta that my son and I have been playing co-op with Gamepass. He's on his Series S and me on the PC. We have had a good time with it. I haven't played BG3 in early access, but I had a lot of fun with Divinity OS co -op as well, and I am going to give it a chance when it gets a full release.

My first introduction to D&D was the Basic set, but it wasn't until 2nd Ed came out that I really fell in love with the games and the setting, so 2nd Ed will always hold a special place in my heart. Nonetheless, I still agree that 2nd Ed rules were fairly obtuse and difficult to get into, which wound up driving away a lot of potential players. 3.X did a good job of streamlining the rules, as well as helping balance out the classes so they weren't so asymmetrical in terms of power. 4th Ed took this too far, however, and I felt it gutted a lot of the nuance and complexity that made D&D such a fascinating and compelling game. I haven't tried 5E out so far (I'm going to use BG3 as my springboard back into it), but so far I've heard positive things about it.

I always preferred second edition but basically because I like to create a character and the "improve" some characteristics like the "to hit" ratio, and specialization in weapons, and so on.

I simply hate feats in 3rd edition and forward. It's like I'm always on building mode with the character and once I finally have the character the way I want to, there are no more levels to well, level up. Is a different character progression than 2nd edition.

But also understand how absurd 2nd edition (and 1st) edition are nowadays for a newcomer.

I started with 2nd in Icewind Dale (my first RPG ever) and I remember reading on a review about "lower armor is better" and just rolled with that. So I prefer 2nd edition too... for nostalgia and character progression.

3e and up is appropriated. They took the names, titles, places, etc. and slapped them onto an entirely different game system. 2e was a natural and largely compatible progression from 1e, and 3e failed to do the same thing. They then started altering and changing things in the settings, claiming that they were "problematic." I may beat NWN because I paid for it, but WotC will never get a penny from me, ever again.
I both agree and disagree with you about 1e/2e for newcomers. I was able to grasp both editions as a child, back in the day. However, the quality of humanity has dropped, significantly, and so I can see how 12/2e could be a challenge for a certain segment of the population. I have been actively trying to find people like me in my area so that I can get a 1e/2e campaign going.

It's one thing to have a preference, it's another entirely to insult people that don't share your preference, which is the line you are crossing here.

3rd Edition is just better than 1st/2nd edition. It's more flexible, and more logical, and has much more extensive character build options.

It's only reasonable that more people prefer the newer system that is more logical and flexible, that you insult them for like it is well childish for someone that must be an old man at this point.

As one old man who grew up playing 1st edition first, to another, you need to grow up.

Sometimes, one must take a stand when they believe in something. 3e and up is completely different, and it simply isn't AD&D (or D&D.) I am finding that I am far from the only one who feels this way. I have come across many people who play the real editions. They are just not in my area. Anti-WotC sentiment is quite strong, as are the clashes between 1e/2e fans and WotC fans. WotC knows that there is money to be made with the original 1e/2e products, which is why they sell them in PDF format, and some products are POD. That they are stilling making money from things long out of print is telling, and it makes me think that they don't make the money that they want off of their appropriated editions. If they were, I doubt that they would sell 1e/2e products at all. They are in serious trouble and are facing backlashes, so if the world is lucky, they will go out of business.

Also, the 1e core books state that the rules can be changed or altered to suit each group, and you can't get much more flexible than that. TSR also released class handbooks with kits and the players option series, providing many options for character creation and development. WotC threw out all of the rules and slapped "D&D", names, titles, settings, etc onto a completely different game ruleset (appropriation.) Even some WotC fans are abandoning them for the real editions because they keep making their products worse and idiotically political.

Maybe checkout nexus .com... Definitely sounds like a good project to use non-WotC rules, I think thats why
I avoided it when it first came out.

I agree I would like 2nd ed rules for a CRPG D&D product, and nothing wrong with opinions... right...????

1/2 ed and 3rd are different game. Period.
Sort of like apples and oranges.

Bascially WoTC are selling oranges but saying they are apples, specifically a very delicious one, that people keep going back to. Nothing wrong with that I just like apples, the only problem is people who like WoTC oranges are saying they are a better apple (3rd ed apple). They aren't red, they don't oxidize when cut etc...


I saw WoTC before they took over TSR, I like their Magic card game and still play it. I saw what they did with obsoleting their cards for tournaments to keep people buying. however so they showed what they are about...

About TSR/D&D brand take over:

WoTC needed to obsolete the legacy rules to make way for revenue generation. They kept the brand name, and the apologist and zealots helped promote the new way going forward. I found 3rd edition and 4th edition too much like World of Warcraft, which made it easier to adapt to these CRPGs. 5th Edition rinse and repeat.... But now like most companies are being financed by Blackrock/Vanguard to promote certain political ideologies.... The escapism fantasy game brand is being weaponized to brainwash people like so many other forms of media...

WoTC is being dominated by some mindflayers (2nd edition ones) :) ,

D&D is being repurposed from a game everyone can enjoy to one of political division, intolerance, 1984 wrong think and self-censorship. While on the surface appearing virtuous and inclusive. If anyone disagrees, the new religion zealots will accuse the non-believers of being bigots of any kind or will acceptably other them with ageist dismissal.

Check out The Knights Of Noromath server. An absolute mad man built ad&d 2e rules over the NWN:EE game and it plays with THAC0 and everything. You'll love it.

Get in the discord server, get a character rolled up with the DM. Pro tip, pick a class with high ability score requirements. You roll AFTER your pick so your results will alter to the minimum ability requirement to fit the chosen class. For this reason specialty priests are probably the best way to go in every case.