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KingofGnG: Yeah, seems a 3-years old Flash cartoon now. Do not want.
I like how everyting people don't like looks like a flash cartoon. You know, there's nothing wrong with animating stuff with Flash. It's a tool.
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KingofGnG: Yeah, seems a 3-years old Flash cartoon now. Do not want.
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tomimt: I like how everyting people don't like looks like a flash cartoon. You know, there's nothing wrong with animating stuff with Flash. It's a tool.
Understood, but word on the street is that Flash on the Web is being killed by Web browsers. It's all HTML5/CSS3/JavaScript now.
I'll buy it if the original version is included. Otherwise, I already have it on disc and neither want or need this remaster.
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Elmofongo: New Screenshots revealed and so far the art style is the same just not as pixliated and more sharper:

http://www.pcgamer.com/day-of-the-tentacle-remastered-screenshots-revealed/
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KingofGnG: Yeah, seems a 3-years old Flash cartoon now. Do not want.
Flash cartoon

edit - incidentally, a 7 year old Flash cartoon.
Post edited October 25, 2015 by amok
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KingofGnG: Yeah, seems a 3-years old Flash cartoon now. Do not want.
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tomimt: I like how everyting people don't like looks like a flash cartoon. You know, there's nothing wrong with animating stuff with Flash. It's a tool.
Its a tool for the lazy. A real animator should do 2D traditional like classic Disney stuff.
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KingofGnG: Yeah, seems a 3-years old Flash cartoon now. Do not want.
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amok: Flash cartoon
Bah rotoscoping using Flash :P

This is how you do Rotoscoping in Traditional Animation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3YYgEC_9HU
Post edited October 25, 2015 by Elmofongo
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tomimt: I like how everyting people don't like looks like a flash cartoon. You know, there's nothing wrong with animating stuff with Flash. It's a tool.
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Elmofongo: Its a tool for the lazy. A real animator should do 2D traditional like classic Disney stuff.
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Elmofongo: Bah rotoscoping using Flash :P

This is how you do Rotoscoping in Traditional Animation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3YYgEC_9HU
actually, it is not rotoscoped. it is hand animated
Post edited October 25, 2015 by amok

Hand-drawn traditional artwork like this new remastered DOTT is what stands the test of time.
I don't think they look hand-drawn, at least not in the way that MI3 does. They look like there was some sort of a vector trace of the original graphics that was then fixed up by hand. The pixel-art is gone, but you can still see it in the result in a negative way, so I don't know what was the point. Worst of both worlds, in my mind.

But if you like the graphics, good for you. I'm just sad because I like to see releases of the originals that I can run in scummvm or dosbox, and this remaster is likely to keep that from ever happening. Then again, I already have the original so personally I'm set, and none of this affects me greatly.

The Monkey Island special editions can at least be crafted into Ultimate Talkies, which is pretty cool. I'm led to believe that MI2 even restores iMUSE, I'm still waiting for a better sale on that so I'm not sure.
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Rixasha: A re-master of DOTT probably means that the original won't see a re-release, and that is a crying shame. Other than that, I don't care.
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Elmofongo: Did any of you LOOKED at the screenshots?
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drealmer7: Argh, I reaaaalllly don't like remasters. I hope they give us original artwork+sound+music and everything as an option. I DO NOT WANT a rebastard version. Same with Full Throttle. ARRRRRRRGGGGGH!!!!
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Elmofongo:
You're talking to the wrong crowd here. Some people are permanently stuck in the past.
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Elmofongo: Its a tool for the lazy. A real animator should do 2D traditional like classic Disney stuff.

Bah rotoscoping using Flash :P

This is how you do Rotoscoping in Traditional Animation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3YYgEC_9HU
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amok: actually, it is not rotoscoped. it is hand animated
Its Rotoscoping in mixed with some traditional hand animated stuff. Man it was such a beautiful form of animation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPe6BNPUmI0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if4WhCzQzyU
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amok: actually, it is not rotoscoped. it is hand animated
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Elmofongo: Its Rotoscoping in mixed with some traditional hand animated stuff. Man it was such a beautiful form of animation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPe6BNPUmI0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if4WhCzQzyU
No, Waltz with Bashir is animated by hand. There is a Guardian review who called it Rotoscoped, but it was wrong.

It is traditional cut-out animation done digitally by hand. Just because you think it is rotoscoped, only credits the craftsmanship in this film.

The animators used reference points from live action, but so do for example "traditional 2D Disney animators", animators have always done so.
Post edited October 25, 2015 by amok
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stg83: Personally I don't think pixel art is timeless and a lot of these games look really dated no matter how charming they were back then. Hand-drawn traditional artwork like this new remastered DOTT is what stands the test of time as can be observed by how well the Curse of Monkey Island still holds up to this day.
While I admit that Curse of Monkey Island's art was TECHNICALLY good for the time, I can't say that it stands the test of time while MI2 doesn't.
Even today, I can appreciate good pixel art as being good art (as opposed to just good pixel art). As a counter example, "good 3D art" from the late 90s or early 2000s, however, looks horrible today, and I couldn't really call it good art (perhaps excluding some small examples that worked within the limitations of the system they used, like Grim Fandango, rather than try to push the envelope of "realism").

It could be that I'm just biased against cartoony 2D art in video games, because the games that didn't go towards 3D moved towards hi-res 2D cartoony art, which just wasn't how I imagined the extension of pixel art when I played those games as a kid (later parts of King's Quest, Space Quest, Monkey Island, etc). I guess I just got caught up in what it could've been instead:
http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/0/4938/609469-maniac_mansion_box_front_6570x8262.jpg
http://pre06.deviantart.net/f7aa/th/pre/i/2010/342/4/a/elaine_by_ertacaltinoz-d34f3tt.jpg
etc.

As for DoTT, I own the original, and I hear that in the new one, the PC in Ed's room won't get you to play the original game (where you can go to the PC in Ed's room to play Maniac Mansion), so I'm not sure I can support a game where such a ridiculous joke wasn't implemented.
Also, I look back now at the pixel art and see the genesis of how it is and why it is so in the remastered version, but DAMN, Hoagie's lips :D.
Post edited October 25, 2015 by babark
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babark: While I admit that Curse of Monkey Island's art was TECHNICALLY good for the time, I can't say that it stands the test of time while MI2 doesn't.
Even today, I can appreciate good pixel art as being good art (as opposed to just good pixel art). As a counter example, "good 3D art" from the late 90s or early 2000s, however, looks horrible today, and I couldn't really call it good art (perhaps excluding some small examples that worked within the limitations of the system they used, like Grim Fandango, rather than try to push the envelope of "realism").
Well as you said, you grew up with these games and to you pixel art still looks really great. But to me standing the test of time means that it should be appreciated by people that haven't grown up playing all the classic games in their childhood.

The art of Day of the Tentacle is really simplistic compared to Curse of Monkey Island, since it is after all more then a 20 year old game. So even the new hand-drawn HD artwork is not going to look as good as something like Curse of Monkey Island because the developers have kept it true to the source. Now I know it is all subjective but for the most part which one do you think kids of this generation will find more appealing.

DOTT Original or DOTT Remastered

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babark: As for DoTT, I own the original, and I hear that in the new one, the PC in Ed's room won't get you to play the original game (where you can go to the PC in Ed's room to play Maniac Mansion), so I'm not sure I can support a game where such a ridiculous joke wasn't implemented.
You heard wrong since according to this article:

"Just like the original Day of the Tentacle, this restoration will contain the entirety of Maniac Mansion as an in-game bonus."
Post edited October 25, 2015 by stg83
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Elmofongo: Its Rotoscoping in mixed with some traditional hand animated stuff. Man it was such a beautiful form of animation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPe6BNPUmI0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if4WhCzQzyU
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amok: No, Waltz with Bashir is animated by hand. There is a Guardian review who called it Rotoscoped, but it was wrong.

It is traditional cut-out animation done digitally by hand. Just because you think it is rotoscoped, only credits the craftsmanship in this film.

The animators used reference points from live action, but so do for example "traditional 2D Disney animators", animators have always done so.
Man I really want to see Waltz with Bashir regardless.

Is it avaliable to stream on Netflix?
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amok: No, Waltz with Bashir is animated by hand. There is a Guardian review who called it Rotoscoped, but it was wrong.

It is traditional cut-out animation done digitally by hand. Just because you think it is rotoscoped, only credits the craftsmanship in this film.

The animators used reference points from live action, but so do for example "traditional 2D Disney animators", animators have always done so.
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Elmofongo: Man I really want to see Waltz with Bashir regardless.

Is it avaliable to stream on Netflix?
no idea... I haven't used Netflix.

Do see it, it is a very very good film.
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stg83: Well as you said, you grew up with these games and to you pixel art still looks really great. But to me standing the test of time means that it should be appreciated by people that haven't grown up playing all the classic games in their childhood.
I dunno, I'd like to think that people will appreciate stuff like this regardless of when they grew up, and not just as a "Oh, this would've been so cool if it was in hi-res!" sort of way...in fact, I can't think of a way this art could be hi-ressed and still be the same thing:
http://pixeljoint.com/pixelart/15080.htm
http://pixeljoint.com/pixelart/17131.htm
http://pixeljoint.com/pixelart/12900.htm
http://pixeljoint.com/pixelart/2812.htm
(Purposely choosing examples that need to be zoomed in to appreciate fully)

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stg83: The art of Day of the Tentacle is really simplistic compared to Curse of Monkey Island, since it is after all more then a 20 year old game. So even the new hand-drawn HD artwork is not going to look as good as something like Curse of Monkey Island because the developers have kept it true to the source. Now I know it is all subjective but for the most part which one do you think kids of this generation will find more appealing.
I suppose DoTT is a bad example to have this discussion about, because the original art was like that any how. My complaints were more generally about the trend in 2D game art.

As for MM in DoTT, I meant it should've been MM in DoTT original in DoTT remastered: game within a game within a game :D. Although has it been confirmed that you'd be able to swap between the original game and the remastered version's art and interface?

PS: What the hell happened to your rep?!
Post edited October 25, 2015 by babark