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Vestin: Sweet Logos... What have I just listened to 0_0?
Don't buy books, don't plan ahead, don't work with others? Don't be an "idea person"? Basically - he's encouraging people who lack ideas, skills and charisma to be creative. It's like telling prospective writers that they don't need to enrich their vocabulary, they don't need to have a plot, they don't need an exchange of ideas; all they need to do is write, because the alphabet is free for everyone. Complete disregard for the "shit in - shit out" principle...
That's not really what he's saying, though. What he means is: When trying to make your first game, be pragmatic. You don't need to spend a lot of money on books because there's plenty of free information out there. You do need to put in some actual work and acquire technical skills, though. "Ideas" alone are worthless if you don't know how implement them in practice. Don't get overly ambitious on your first project (forming "teams" or writing detailed design documents is misguided). A small, simple, unoriginal game that you actually finish is infinitely more valuable than an imaginary game full of great ideas that never sees the light of day.
There is always a emulator!

Dick Smith's VZ200

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/810/vz200med1084spe6.jpg

I Miss the good old days!

http://physicsmuseum.uq.edu.au/system/storage/serve/20571/IMG_3779.JPG?itok=D6vFyFmw

DIck Smith's VZ200

ID: 1827
Maker's Name: Dick Smith Electronics
Where made: Other
circa 1983

Processor=Z80 running at 3.8MHZ
ROM=16K
RAM 8K, expandable to 24K*
Interfaces Cassette, RF and video, I/O, expansion
Keyboard =45 rubber keys
Display=32 x 16 lines text, 64 x 32 graphics in 8 colours
Sound=Single channel, 32 frequencies, 9 durations
Software Basic in ROM, Application programs on audio cassettes.

Emulator Here: http://www.vz200.org/downloads.php?cat_id=2
Post edited June 22, 2014 by fr33kSh0w2012
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spindown: That's not really what he's saying, though.
I certainly hope so.
First of all - ideas are EVERYTHING. Coders are a dime a dozen, good ideas are few and far between. What the world needs is more people with great ideas; not shitty ideas, not unreasonable ideas, not malformed ideas, but GREAT ideas. Finding the craftsmen to make them a reality should be far simpler then coming up with them in the first place.
I may be, of course, biased, since I'm the far end of a trail of breadcrumbs that started with people hanging out and discussing abstract notions while drinking wine... Same as the entire Western Civilization, I guess. Nothing is quite practical like a good theory...
Secondly - having an idea is one thing, fleshing it out is another. With any decent complexity comes the need to organize thoughts, make plans. A "design document" doesn't have to be enormous and overwhelmingly impressive, but it makes sense to write down what you want to do before you set out and start doing it. This way, every time you go back and ask yourself "What the hell am I doing again?", "What's the point of so-and-so?", "What's the next step?" you can trace it all back.
Other people can be a major source of motivation, feedback, ideas, CONTENT. There's this thing called "the Myth of the Genius Programmer"; he remains hidden from the world, working, until he finally emerges with glorious code. That's usually not how the world works - we NEED others to achieve things.
There is, of course, the learning process leading up to all of this, and here's where the books come in. One doesn't NEED to buy things, but one needs sources to learn. Theory should precede practice. "Just go ahead and do it, figure things out as you go" is terrible advice in most areas of life.
One thing I agree with is "start out with something modest", but that's about it.
I don't want to watch the entirety to pick it apart sentence by sentence, but the "there are no rules" part is also bollocks. Just because rules can always be broken, doesn't mean they don't exist. Furthermore - it's usually wise to learn them BEFORE breaking them. Hell - we've got two separate specializations for Master's Degrees both in game-making and game design and history. I would like to believe there's some goddamn reason for them to exist. As such - there ARE some things one can learn.

It's not like my goal in life is to discourage potential geniuses, but I'd rather we didn't go down the baroque way of "everyone can write (games)". Lesson learnt from back then has been that just because a guy can write, it doesn't mean he's a (great) writer. I don't think everyone should think highly of himself in every way - much like respect for others, respect for oneself should be earned.
- - -
EDIT: Frankly - I don't know how I feel about this anymore. I feel like I'm about to go in circles... Meditate on this I will.
Post edited June 22, 2014 by Vestin
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Vestin: First of all - ideas are EVERYTHING. Coders are a dime a dozen, good ideas are few and far between. What the world needs is more people with great ideas; not shitty ideas, not unreasonable ideas, not malformed ideas, but GREAT ideas. Finding the craftsmen to make them a reality should be far simpler then coming up with them in the first place.
I think the point he was trying to make is that a lot of people think they have a great idea and then they try to get a group together because they expect everyone else to do the actual work and make it happen. There are tons of threads, especially for fan projects, where the person wants to find other people who will do everything (art, music, coding, etc.) and usually in those situations the person's idea isn't even that interesting.

So even if someone does have a genuinely great idea, they should still learn a bit about making a game so that they have a better concept of what is or isn't possible to do with the game engine. And if they do need a team in the end, it will be a lot easier to recruit people with some kind of prototype already built to prove that the person is serious and really does have a good idea.
If anyone here is into making old-school Ultima-like games without needing any programming background, try Adventure Creation Kit by Chris Hopkins: http://mozomedia.com/ack/

This program has been around for a very long time, which was inspired by the Adventure Construction Set. At one point, it was even shareware before becoming available freely due to a distribution of a key. It was finally updated just a few years ago (after a long time of no updates). One cool thing about it is that using the macro editor is actually easy as pie since the language it uses is very similar to BASIC. That feature can be handy for those who want to utilize more advanced features.

Being an old program it is (regardless of updates), it does require DOSBox (which the newer releases include automatically). And yes, first time I used the Adventure Creation Kit was back in 2000.
Post edited June 22, 2014 by Bandock
Going to have to agree with those who said that we would need to know what kind of game you want to make before recommending even a basic engine for it. We (my family) are messing around with half a dozen engines currently, but each project relates to a game-play style and story that should work best for that engine.

If you don't want to come up with a story or premise, then just playing around with the software you have should scratch the itch.

Do you want to make a point 'n click 2D adventure, a 3D adventure, a children's game RPG, a strategy game, a match-3, or a platformer? There are easy tools to get started no matter which way you are going, but most are fairly dedicated to maybe one or two uses. RPGmaker makes RPGs pretty much. There are dedicated point 'n click engines, virtual pinball game engines, Interactive Fiction engines, arcade-optimized engines, and so on... all for free. Its up to you
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Vestin: First of all - ideas are EVERYTHING. Coders are a dime a dozen, good ideas are few and far between. What the world needs is more people with great ideas; not shitty ideas, not unreasonable ideas, not malformed ideas, but GREAT ideas. Finding the craftsmen to make them a reality should be far simpler then coming up with them in the first place.
I see people express this notion every once in a while, but honestly every time I've heard creative professionals talk about crafting something it's almost always the exact opposite. Ideas are everywhere and there are lots of dreamers who have an idea for the next big epic sci-fi/zombies/fantasy open-world experience. If only they were rich or lucky enough to be put in charge of a game company they would undoubtedly turn their vision into the finest game ever produced.

On the other hand, it takes a lot more effort and grit to actually build your skillset in order to be able to actually create things and execute on ideas. It's trivial to come up with an interesting premise for a novel, but the writer who actually puts in the hundreds and thousands of hours to perfect their craft, study narrative structure, and get better and better at cutting down their draft into a polished, focused story are going to produce something way more enjoyable to read, even using a relatively cliche plot, than someone with a great idea and no idea how to translate that into something compelling to read.

It's not just coding, either -- good game design entails an execution component separate from the game's implantation in code. People don't just decide to make a game and start banging away at their keyboard until they're done, just as a novelist doesn't decide to write a book and start typing at page one until they reach the last page. The high-level planning and design and revision is just as important, or arguably more so, than the resulting code. Occasionally you'll see a game that has an awesome original premise but the designer just failed to implement their ideas in a way that's fun and feels good to play (such as the original Assassin's Creed, in some ways.)

I like the way that this guy thinks of it: Ideas are just a multiplier of execution.
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Vestin: First of all - ideas are EVERYTHING. Coders are a dime a dozen, good ideas are few and far between. What the world needs is more people with great ideas; not shitty ideas, not unreasonable ideas, not malformed ideas, but GREAT ideas. Finding the craftsmen to make them a reality should be far simpler then coming up with them in the first place.
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Rakuru: I see people express this notion every once in a while, but honestly every time I've heard creative professionals talk about crafting something it's almost always the exact opposite. Ideas are everywhere and there are lots of dreamers who have an idea for the next big epic sci-fi/zombies/fantasy open-world experience. If only they were rich or lucky enough to be put in charge of a game company they would undoubtedly turn their vision into the finest game ever produced.
On the other hand a dream and money is no guaranty for success, it also takes good management: 38 Studios
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Rakuru: I see people express this notion every once in a while, but honestly every time I've heard creative professionals talk about crafting something it's almost always the exact opposite. Ideas are everywhere and there are lots of dreamers who have an idea for the next big epic sci-fi/zombies/fantasy open-world experience. If only they were rich or lucky enough to be put in charge of a game company they would undoubtedly turn their vision into the finest game ever produced.
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justanoldgamer: On the other hand a dream and money is no guaranty for success, it also takes good management: 38 Studios
Absolutely. Sorry for being unclear, my last sentence there was meant sarcastically, as in that's what many people without knowledge of game development seem to believe. I totally agree that it takes much more than a dream and money to make a good game.
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SalarShushan: Going to have to agree with those who said that we would need to know what kind of game you want to make before recommending even a basic engine for it. We (my family) are messing around with half a dozen engines currently, but each project relates to a game-play style and story that should work best for that engine.

If you don't want to come up with a story or premise, then just playing around with the software you have should scratch the itch.

Do you want to make a point 'n click 2D adventure, a 3D adventure, a children's game RPG, a strategy game, a match-3, or a platformer? There are easy tools to get started no matter which way you are going, but most are fairly dedicated to maybe one or two uses. RPGmaker makes RPGs pretty much. There are dedicated point 'n click engines, virtual pinball game engines, Interactive Fiction engines, arcade-optimized engines, and so on... all for free. Its up to you
Like I said in the OP I just wanted the easier one first, which appears to be RPG Makers, I will therefore make an RPG to begin with. I also own Gamemaker Studio 1.2 and Multimedia Fusion 2 so I'll next try them and develop what seems natural to do with both engine. I am doing this as a hobby and as a learning experience. I do have a complex game in mind as described in another post in this thread for when I am ready but in the mean time I'll dable with different tools in order of complexity until I find the one to create my piece de resistance. All this is for private fun, I am not looking into publishing anything except maybe to share with a few people if I'm proud of the result.
As the Cheshire Cat says:
“Alice came to a fork in the road. 'Which road do I take?' she asked.
'Where do you want to go?' responded the Cheshire Cat.
'I don't know,' Alice answered.
'Then,' said the Cat, 'it doesn't matter.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes, I did read your OP.

I am trying to be helpful, not just a Cheshire Cat commentator ;)

I personally find it difficult to progress, even in a learning phase, without a clear achievable idea or a story to share.

I started with the 'just messing with it' stage too - and never got far...

Then I adapted some stories I had for each of the projects we are using for several game engines we picked up, because we've found that every game engine looks great when you are following the first tutorials - but real mastery only happens when you choose a goal, and work towards it.

THOSE projects are still going, and we learn more everyday. Maybe the general public won't see all of them, but its fun to think that we will be able to share some of this fun stuff one of these days. Maybe one quick game will be finished as a 'just for you' birthday/holiday gift. Maybe another will express an idea more completely than a blog could. Such notions keep us motivated to keep learning.

I honestly believe that the motivation to completing any long-term project begins with a desire to share and to communicate. I can't even finish a crocheted blanket without reminding myself repeatedly how much it will warm the recipient and of the affection the gift expresses. Otherwise, its just thousands of stitches, one right after another. Its a calming hobby, granted, but I always need a reason to keep going, and some one to share it with.

I understand you don't want to launch into your long-term project while in the early learning stages. I agree that it would be wise to wait on that, but I still recommend that you make sure that your learning projects express some notion that mean a little something to you because learning the ropes towards making a decent "learning project game' takes awhile to complete too, and can get kind of boring, when it isn't out-right frustrating. Its good to anticipate having something to show someone, getting some feed-back, and achieving small goals on the way toward a larger mastery of the process.

After the basics, its easier to find out how well you can work with any given engine when you have a scenario / idea to express and you look up lessons to specifically achieve those mini-goals. Those little successes really do help keep the process enjoyable.

How about doing a "To The Moon" style thing of re-creating some fun memories for your family on RPG-Maker? That should be simple enough, and give you something to share with your loved ones.

If you don't like that idea, maybe you could adapt a favorite fairy tale or mystery or sci-fi short story or make your own levels for your favorite old-style video game?
Post edited June 23, 2014 by SalarShushan
^ Thank you for the advice :) I'm also considering messing around with a game maker to see what I can do. I have some general story ideas and I know it can be done because of To The Moon (although I doubt I will create something as good as that) but I'm also going to see what I'm capable of with RPG Maker (got it cheap on Humble Bundle or Indie Gala, can't remember which) and if I do make something cool which I feel like I could do more with, then I'll try to convert it to another game engine.
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justanoldgamer: Too begin with, I want quick results to built up my battered self esteem. Later on, something that let me do my own thing even if it require lots of patience. I do have an ultimate goal: A turned based 3D space fleet combat game to do the kind of space battle David Weber describes in his books.

I of course won't accomplish that with "RPG Maker" but I'm just on the rebuilding my self-esteem phase, I'll figure what kind of games I'll do with it once I know its limitations. After one of several games I'll probably try to pervert it into doing something it was not created for to get pass those limitations and see if I still got it. Then I'll get on Gamemaker or Multimedia Fusion and see what they can do. After that I'll try my hand at Python and PyGame. After that I'm not sure which is why I'll keep this thread in my favorite to come back to it. At the Python stage I'll probably start working on my space battle but on a simpler level, i.e. 2D and probably make it about Naval Battles with a limited amount of ships. That will be a great place to start learning about game A.I. I might try to do a simple board games like backgammon first.
Sounds like a solid plan. I'd like to dabble in game development myself, but alas, the time...

I made some simple one-room adventures with AGS soem years ago. I used it for the same reason: To have quick results. I found that the asset creation was the hardest and most time consuming part.
If what was said in the video is entirely true, games like this wouldn't exist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KD7m-giIsk

So a lot of what is said in that video designed to encourage people to make video games = false. There is some truth in there but also a lot of BS.
Post edited June 23, 2014 by monkeydelarge
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SalarShushan: ... maybe you could adapt a favorite fairy tale or mystery or sci-fi short story ...
I liked the whole post but this right here if fantastic, since I'm not publishing at all I don't need to care about trademarks, ownership, copyrights.and all those things that directly lead to cease and desist letters from grumpy lawyers.
Thank you.