Posted November 29, 2010
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Titanium
The iron-y
Registered: Nov 2008
From Slovenia
![Trilarion](https://images.gog.com/a618451cc469d80576b2f8f413c96b3ddcc9dc4af5a9dc9df86f603db3b35afb_forum_avatar.jpg)
Trilarion
New User
Registered: Jul 2010
From Germany
Posted November 29, 2010
"...Clashes with Europe over human rights: American officials sharply warned Germany in 2007 not to enforce arrest warrants for Central Intelligence Agency officers involved in a bungled operation in which an innocent German citizen with the same name as a suspected militant was mistakenly kidnapped and held for months in Afghanistan. A senior American diplomat told a German official “that our intention was not to threaten Germany, but rather to urge that the German government weigh carefully at every step of the way the implications for relations with the U.S...."
Okay, so thats not nice. ;)
Okay, so thats not nice. ;)
![Navagon](https://images.gog.com/2e3a04b014f35f97007dd44660cdb43bf22b5c34a7295b7cea6016ae5cd083ba_forum_avatar.jpg)
Navagon
Easily Persuaded
Registered: Dec 2008
From United Kingdom
![Titanium](https://images.gog.com/b08330d9ad86b8acfecfac899ee6502e93c5ccb685c3e30ecd423b9d4ba38a40_forum_avatar.jpg)
Titanium
The iron-y
Registered: Nov 2008
From Slovenia
![hedwards](https://images.gog.com/8e479c443288f152170c4b92a1d606fc09a248e1c284a9af39474315fb98d041_forum_avatar.jpg)
hedwards
buy Evil Genius
Registered: Nov 2008
From United States
Posted November 29, 2010
![avatar](/upload/avatars/2010/08/6e41ebc9ec179b5d7dd2e1b621ed8c8c59c499a7_t.jpg)
Okay, so thats not nice. ;)
Heh, Mafia 2, great game.
As for the topic here, you do have to wonder whether the American government realizes that this was more or less inevitable. You've got a couple of wars that were very unpopular and because of them we weren't able to commit troopers to things that were much more important. As in dealing with the Mugabe situation in Zimbabwe and the issue of Darfur. If anybody would have greeted us as liberators it would've been the Sudanese people or at least the subset dealing with genocide.
![KingofGnG](https://images.gog.com/5aafc060e36623c478cb3888bc4d1bff3e06fd73079fedb421d4f042eab335c3_forum_avatar.jpg)
KingofGnG
I hunt Ghouls
Registered: Sep 2008
From Italy
Posted November 29, 2010
![Navagon](https://images.gog.com/2e3a04b014f35f97007dd44660cdb43bf22b5c34a7295b7cea6016ae5cd083ba_forum_avatar.jpg)
Navagon
Easily Persuaded
Registered: Dec 2008
From United Kingdom
![DelusionsBeta](https://images.gog.com/33801283c38bb5d30c78b1ad5923aeeb4f879512678784b625a2bfef7a8c20f6_forum_avatar.jpg)
DelusionsBeta
Yikes!
Registered: Feb 2009
From United Kingdom
Posted November 29, 2010
Thus far, it's really nothing much more than the traditional Final Diplomat Dispatch (where an outgoing diplomat uses his last dispatch to rip the country he's in a new one) was, except for America instead of the UK.
![Titanium](https://images.gog.com/b08330d9ad86b8acfecfac899ee6502e93c5ccb685c3e30ecd423b9d4ba38a40_forum_avatar.jpg)
Titanium
The iron-y
Registered: Nov 2008
From Slovenia
![Siannah](https://images.gog.com/a9dc91793c2b39543ddd425d9c8bf1213283a4416c74cbcb2304ca30d3744a2e_forum_avatar.jpg)
Siannah
what?
Registered: Sep 2008
From Switzerland
Posted November 29, 2010
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Paul_cz
Freedom Fighter
Registered: Sep 2008
From Czech Republic
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Rucksack
Dr. Antiquarian
Registered: Jun 2010
From United States
Posted November 29, 2010
I hate to be Debbie Downer here, but you'd have to be incredibly naive to think that the "truth" should always come out. Sometimes fictions, lies, and deception serve a very real purpose, and actually save lives.
Do you think that the Cold War would have ended well if both sides knew exactly what the other was doing and the variable extent of their nuclear stockpiles? Do you really think that we should know the names of international intelligence assets?
And in this case, do you really think that making public diplomatic cables serves any real practical purpose? Does Iran really need to know that the king of Saudi Arabia wanted the United States to engage them? Does the world really need to know what some diplomat thought about some PM's personal character in an off-the-cuff classified diplomatic cable?
Realpolitik, you know that little principle that allows us to operate in our secular world, requires some level of secrecy to function. To think otherwise is at best youthful idealism.
Anyhow, you're welcome to your opinion obviously. That's just mine.
Do you think that the Cold War would have ended well if both sides knew exactly what the other was doing and the variable extent of their nuclear stockpiles? Do you really think that we should know the names of international intelligence assets?
And in this case, do you really think that making public diplomatic cables serves any real practical purpose? Does Iran really need to know that the king of Saudi Arabia wanted the United States to engage them? Does the world really need to know what some diplomat thought about some PM's personal character in an off-the-cuff classified diplomatic cable?
Realpolitik, you know that little principle that allows us to operate in our secular world, requires some level of secrecy to function. To think otherwise is at best youthful idealism.
Anyhow, you're welcome to your opinion obviously. That's just mine.
![Navagon](https://images.gog.com/2e3a04b014f35f97007dd44660cdb43bf22b5c34a7295b7cea6016ae5cd083ba_forum_avatar.jpg)
Navagon
Easily Persuaded
Registered: Dec 2008
From United Kingdom
Posted November 29, 2010
I'm pretty sure they did. Even regarding how much involvement they both had in conflicts such as Vietnam, Afghanistan (1979 - 89) and Korea. But neither wanted a full scale nuclear war and it was that which kept it under wraps.
Post edited November 29, 2010 by Navagon
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tejozaszaszas
Vote Civilization II
Registered: Sep 2010
From Spain
Posted November 29, 2010
We all agree that any goverment can be an enemy of freedom, but these debate really shows how weak our democracy is. In Iran, the regime could expell hundreds of students from universities for supporting oposition, executing defenseless women for adultery, hang people for the crime of sodomy, suporting guerrilla on neighbouring countries and here we got a huge crisis for some naive comments made by some embasies staff. It´s depressing to see how vulnerable we are.
Post edited November 29, 2010 by tejozaszaszas
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Rucksack
Dr. Antiquarian
Registered: Jun 2010
From United States
Posted November 29, 2010
![avatar](/upload/avatars/2010/06/5c33814c7540f28afe0ea14f86a22f853c67c8d0_t.jpg)
![avatar](/upload/avatars/2010/10/5a56c49b5947db8f8715e8ecd707207b3223d9fe_t.jpg)
In the age of the internet and google earth, I know that this is pretty hard to believe.
As for the South East Asia conflicts, you're absolutely right on those counts. But neither side ever attempted to make their involvement a secret.
Now, please understand. I really believe some things should come out. There have been multiple times that the United States has overstepped ethical and legal boundaries, and the individuals responsible should be held accountable.
This is not one of those cases.