I feel the same way when I see people voting for scumbags like Bill Clinton and George Bush.

3 isn't but 1 and 2 might be

Witcher 1 might still use Steam CEG. Witcher 2 had DRM removed in update 1.1. Witcher 3 is DRM-free on Steam - so I find it odd that a 3DM claims to have "cracked" it.

I was looking at the subreddit for CrackWatch, the release thread for Crash Bandicoot. Unlike Paladin's post here which I will have to respectfully disagree with, there's so much people advocating buying a game that clearly still has DRM, as basic as it is.

And that disgusts me. The pirated version has zero of that hassle, and yet even people on a piracy-focused subreddit, those who are at odds with DRM and know how it is designed to affect them, are in support of it. It's no wonder DRM is still here.

I get that DRM is a sport for the scene, but those of CrackWatch don't know how to crack their own DRM by hand, do they?

Also, as for abandoned games being available on eBay, let's ignore the excuses of physical space or lack of disc trays, and think about how the seller may abuse the lack of demand to increase the price, the persistent question of whether you're getting what you want, the difficulties in dealing with returns...if the publisher doesn't want my money for this game, do I still have to fork out money?

That depends entirely on whether you interpret laws in literal or causal context.

If you pirate an abandonware, it is always against the law based on the literal interpretation.

If you look at it from the causal interpretation perspective, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it, as no one is really losing anything* if you do that.

So you can argue it both ways really. I don't think much of that is applicable to crackwatch stuff, where people are looking for cracks for games which are not necessarily even officially out yet.


* = There are some people who argue that piracy is always devaluing the franchise, regardless of circumstances. Also, it can be debated whether damage to the second hand market should be taken into account, as there are people who actually make their living selling preowned physical copies.

Notice he's talking in the 3rd person plural perspective. In other words, it's like me when i say i'm totally in support of gog publishing games I won't buy from GOG. He's not saying he's going to pirate (he might, i don't know, though), but instead he's kind of like those people that says "i hope your child gets smallpox so you learn the importance of vaccines," while the antivaxer might say "i hope you get the flu despite the flu vaccine so you realize it doesn't work." I agree with the sentiment: I hope games on steam get pirated and cracked to punish them for not releasing DRM free. I won't grab the pirated versions, and if i find the game worth it i'll buy the DRMed version of the game (skyrim), and then maybe grab the crack if it seems safe enough, so i can have my DRM free backup. Right now, I have a backup directory of steam games, some of which work without steam, actually, but not all of them. The ones that don't, i keep in that directory, anyway, since i legally purchased them. If something happens to steam so i can't play legit, anymore, i'll still have them, and i'll go find where the cracks are at, or figure out how to crack it myself. I honestly hope these companies get their own in the end for dealing with the devil.
Walmart doesn't take returns on software for a reason. Technically, if you've installed the program at any point, you can't resell the CD, and this becomes a form of piracy, since the original install is theoretically still useable. That's be like me taking a gog game, installing it, then selling my installer and then deleting my copy of the installer and calling it legal.

I wanted to point you to Ebay, myself...but seeing, that you easily shot that suggestion down with a far-fetched argument...I see no use in further commenting on that.
smh

That's referring to my post, so I'll reply.

First, I suppose you meant "lack of supply". Lack of demand should lead to lower prices.

Disliking the offered price is not justification to get it for free. Instead, the consumer can A) do without (life goes on without playing Game XYZ), B) wait for prices to come down, C) wait for the game to make its way out of Legal Hell and into digital distro venues, and D) click the Make Offer button and ask for a lower price.

On the question of whether you're getting what you want, returns, etc. This is actually somewhat better than buying a brand-new game on gOg. For a title purchased on gOg, if it works but isn't what you wanted, then your options are actually fewer than if you bought it on eBay. On gOg, you're not getting a refund if it you don't like it. For eBay, maybe - you can claim it didn't work, etc. The chance for a return on an eBay purchase might be small, but it's still a better chance than if you don't like the game you bought from gOg.

If the publisher doesn't want your money... doesn't matter. We like to use DRM-free because of ownership and all that entails. Having a physical disk is one manifestation of ownership. And with a physical disk copy, the publisher doesn't come into play - they already got their money from that copy. This assumes, of course, that the previous owner upheld their end of the deal and fully relinquished ownership by deleting the game, backups, etc. That notion is similar to DRM-free digital versions: trust in the consumer is what makes it work.

And this is a big thing with ebay, too: trust in the merchant. Culture and free-market all rely on trust, if not just trust in the parties involved, but also the trust in some sort of external party who can arbitrate in instances of conflict (we usually call this civil court). Notice our trust in that external party has fallen, as of late. This lack of trust in the external party is precisely what DRM, DRM-Free, digital vs physical debate, etc are all about. That says something, doesn't it?

Right. Since they see the dwindling amount of copies as a reason to raise the price, and since those who will buy such games are likely collectors in their eyes, the prices are yanked up.

Of the four options, the first is practically the easiest. B would sometimes be waiting for hell to freeze over, C is more likely but still something remarkable with today's publishers either only focusing on the new or remastering what has been already avilable for years. And D, is, well, uncertain, and that entails in the next point I want t omake.

With eBay, the chance is uncertain. I may get a return. I may not. With GOG, it is certain what gets a return and what won't. The money back guarantee if a game doesn't work after fixes is one such measure and the ability to refund games that you haven't yet downloaded is also there. With eBay, it might as well feel like gambling my luck.

I'd still rather have the abandoned title to stay in circulation, legally but at absurd prices and risk (eBay) and illegally but with zero risk (piracy). There is no guarantee with the legal way that there will be even copies available for sale in the future, as they can be all sold out and never resold again, whereas by piracy, there will always be a copy of a game playable.

My idea is, if the publisher doesn't really bother with the title and leave it to rot, why should we follow that? No harm keeping such games up on abandonware, and taking them down when they get back on sale.

Snipping for brevity.

I really do understand the notion: game is decades old, nobody can manage to get it to market, and there is a painfully simple way to obtain the game. So why not?

There are a few reasons why I'm not onboard that gaming life raft:

- These aren't vital things that we must have. Games in general, sure. This specific game that isn't available these days? No. Go play something else and hope that the details get worked out on these other ones. Like happened with the System Shock titles, for instance. There are literally tens of thousands of other options, either for free or for anywhere from pennies to $50-$60.

- These games were for sale at one point. Folks should have purchased them when available. "Well I couldn't because" <excuses 1 through 7>. You snooze you lose. Now hit up the used game market, such as eBay.

- The big one: there is no standard for determining when a game becomes 'abandoned'. The blanket argument is "I can't buy it anywhere" (which is not usually the actual case, but we'll go with that) "so instead I'm allowed to have it for free." It's never worded that way, but that's the reality of it when people decide that the first two points above don't apply to them. That not-for-sale argument doesn't take into account the potential return of these games to the marketplace, nor does it take into account how long a game must be withdrawn from the first-buyer marketplace (not the used market) before people should consider the matter hopeless.

Not sure what you're trying to say here. If the point is that we can't actually trust eBay these days, well, apparently I'm one of the few people who have no problems buying things on that site.

I know it's far fetched, but it's quite plausible and increasingly so, especially the last bit I tacked on. I have a binder fulla CDs I no longer use.

That, and bit rot.

That's your opinion. As soon as NOLF goes on sale again, I'll pay for it. I never got the chance because I never knew it existed before when it was originally on sale. I disagree with your sentiment because I am willing to pay and no one will take my money, so I will take it for free until someone decides who gets my money. I don't care about buying it used because the people I want to pay, who deserve to be paid for their product don't want to be paid for it. Your opinion is fair, and I respect it, but I also vehemently disagree with that notion.

"It's for sale, but not from the people who I want getting my money, therefore I can have it for free." That's the effect of this position. Meanwhile, you're playing for free a game that clearly has value, to you and to the marketplace in general.

But you do get the right to play for free just because you don't like who gets the money for it.

Got it.

I wonder about these types of games but I have to question how many of these standalone games "work". It's unfortunate that many games are drmed and all but these versions of them tend to have a lack of updates and the ones who are skilled at updating these versions of the games are more likely nowhere to be found.

In short, my hypothesis is that these games are missing a whole slew of things because once they are released from their DRM, they are missing a lot of their features or even have a host of new bugs due to the game going through the grinder.