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IronArcturus: I agree. I wish more gamers would vote with their wallets and refuse to buy games packed with unnecessary DRM.
This.

Every time someone breaks down and buys a DRMed product (no matter how much you think "Steam is as good as DRM gets" it's still DRM!), that person is truly and actively harming everyone else in the gaming community.

So, yes. If you buy a DRMed product, you're a jerk. Thanks for making my life worse.
Post edited May 21, 2014 by mqstout
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IronArcturus: I agree. I wish more gamers would vote with their wallets and refuse to buy games packed with unnecessary DRM.
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mqstout: This. Every time someone breaks down and buys a DRMed product (no matter how much you think "Steam is as good as DRM gets" it's still DRM!), that person is truly and actively harming everyone else in the gaming community.
Yeah, I recently learned the new Transistor game is going to be DRM-only, and it made it really sad because I enjoyed the original Bastion game.
Post edited May 21, 2014 by IronArcturus
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mqstout: So, yes. If you buy a DRMed product, you're a jerk. Thanks for making my life worse.
If you call people jerks for disagreeing with you, you're a jerk. Thank you for making life of everybody worse :-P
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mqstout: This. Every time someone breaks down and buys a DRMed product (no matter how much you think "Steam is as good as DRM gets" it's still DRM!), that person is truly and actively harming everyone else in the gaming community.
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IronArcturus: Yeah, I recently learned the new Transistor game is going to be DRM-only, and it made it really sad because I enjoyed the original Bastion game.
nah, it is delivered DRM free via Steam :)
I'm still trying to get over the whole 'truly and actively harming' line. XD

Here I was feeling guilty about my side job of selling crack to children but it turns out next to people who buy DRM my conscience is relatively clear. :D
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IronArcturus: Yeah, I recently learned the new Transistor game is going to be DRM-only, and it made it really sad because I enjoyed the original Bastion game.
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amok: nah, it is delivered DRM free via Steam :)
Many consider Steam DRM since you have to have the client running just to play the game. Plus the player is not given a stand-alone installer for the game.
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amok: nah, it is delivered DRM free via Steam :)
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IronArcturus: Many consider Steam DRM since you have to have the client running just to play the game. Plus the player is not given a stand-alone installer for the game.
yeah... but you do not need the client running to play Transistor.

"Note we have put no DRM in Transistor unless you count Steam as a form of DRM. Once you’ve downloaded the game from Steam, you don’t need Steam to be running in order to play."
http://supergiantgames.com/index.php/2014/05/transistor-preorder-soundtrack/

And Transistor is not the only DRM free game on Steam. Half-Life 2, for example, is as well... and a lot of others.
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IronArcturus: Many consider Steam DRM since you have to have the client running just to play the game. Plus the player is not given a stand-alone installer for the game.
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amok: yeah... but you do not need the client running to play Transistor.

"Note we have put no DRM in Transistor unless you count Steam as a form of DRM. Once you’ve downloaded the game from Steam, you don’t need Steam to be running in order to play."
http://supergiantgames.com/index.php/2014/05/transistor-preorder-soundtrack/

And Transistor is not the only DRM free game on Steam. Half-Life 2, for example, is as well... and a lot of others.
Now if Transistor were released via a DRM-free, stand-alone installer like they did with Bastion, then yes, that would be considered DRM-free. But I do not use Steam since I do not agree with their pro-DRM policies.
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amok: yeah... but you do not need the client running to play Transistor.

"Note we have put no DRM in Transistor unless you count Steam as a form of DRM. Once you’ve downloaded the game from Steam, you don’t need Steam to be running in order to play."
http://supergiantgames.com/index.php/2014/05/transistor-preorder-soundtrack/

And Transistor is not the only DRM free game on Steam. Half-Life 2, for example, is as well... and a lot of others.
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IronArcturus: Now if Transistor were released via a DRM-free, stand-alone installer like they did with Bastion, then yes, that would be considered DRM-free. But I do not use Steam since I do not agree with their pro-DRM policies.
That's fine, but you can not say it is not sold DRM free, just because you do not like the store it is sold in.
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IronArcturus: Now if Transistor were released via a DRM-free, stand-alone installer like they did with Bastion, then yes, that would be considered DRM-free. But I do not use Steam since I do not agree with their pro-DRM policies.
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amok: That's fine, but you can not say it is not sold DRM free, just because you do not like the store it is sold in.
It's disingenuous to say a game is "DRM-free and on Steam" when Steam itself is considered DRM. If the Steam service were to vanish, the players would lose all of their games since there is no way the company would take the time to convert all the DRM games to non-DRM games. If you buy a GOG game and then wish to play the game 10 to 20 years later, the game will still work since it's not dependent on a mandatory service. I wish more companies would use the same policies that GOG uses.
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amok: That's fine, but you can not say it is not sold DRM free, just because you do not like the store it is sold in.
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IronArcturus: It's disingenuous to say a game is "DRM-free and on Steam" when Steam itself is considered DRM. If the Steam service were to vanish, the players would lose all of their games since there is no way the company would take the time to convert all the DRM games to non-DRM games. If you buy a GOG game and then wish to play the game 10 to 20 years later, the game will still work since it's not dependent on a mandatory service. I wish more companies would use the same policies that GOG uses.
That only apply to the games using CEG (Steam's DRM scheme). The DRM free games do not need to converted, because they are, you know, DRM free....
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IronArcturus: It's disingenuous to say a game is "DRM-free and on Steam" when Steam itself is considered DRM. If the Steam service were to vanish, the players would lose all of their games since there is no way the company would take the time to convert all the DRM games to non-DRM games. If you buy a GOG game and then wish to play the game 10 to 20 years later, the game will still work since it's not dependent on a mandatory service. I wish more companies would use the same policies that GOG uses.
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amok: That only apply to the games using CEG (Steam's DRM scheme). The DRM free games do not need to converted, because they are, you know, DRM free....
Then show me the stand-alone installer! ;)
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Fenixp: If you call people jerks for disagreeing with you, you're a jerk. Thank you for making life of everybody worse :-P
I'm not calling them jerks for disagreeing with me.

I'm calling them jerks for making my and even your life worse, by purchasing DRMed products, thus encouraging companies to use DRM, thus shitting on everyone's consumer rights.
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amok: yeah... but you do not need the client running to play Transistor.

"Note we have put no DRM in Transistor unless you count Steam as a form of DRM. Once you’ve downloaded the game from Steam, you don’t need Steam to be running in order to play."
http://supergiantgames.com/index.php/2014/05/transistor-preorder-soundtrack/

And Transistor is not the only DRM free game on Steam. Half-Life 2, for example, is as well... and a lot of others.
Not having the client to play doesn't mean its DRM-free. Can you after purchase move the game to any computer (including one that's never, ever, connected to the Internet) and have it play indefinitely without an issue? That's DRM-free.

Otherwise, it's DRM-at-install.
Post edited May 21, 2014 by mqstout
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mqstout: Not having the client to play doesn't mean its DRM-free. Can you after purchase move the game to any computer (including one that's never, ever, connected to the Internet) and have it play indefinitely without an issue? That's DRM-free.

Otherwise, it's DRM-at-install.
Half-Life 2 fits that description.

Download the game off Steam, quit Steam, copy the game's folder (in SteamApps/common) to a USB-stick and to another computer, maybe install the bundled runtimes and whatnot (simply making sure that you have all prerequisites - they're in the game's folder, so are copied with the game unless you explicitly ecclude them), run the game.

I don't know about Transistor, but I quite doubt it's different.
Post edited May 21, 2014 by Maighstir
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Fenixp: If you call people jerks for disagreeing with you, you're a jerk. Thank you for making life of everybody worse :-P
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mqstout: I'm not calling them jerks for disagreeing with me.

I'm calling them jerks for making my and even your life worse, by purchasing DRMed products, thus encouraging companies to use DRM, thus shitting on everyone's consumer rights.
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amok: yeah... but you do not need the client running to play Transistor.

"Note we have put no DRM in Transistor unless you count Steam as a form of DRM. Once you’ve downloaded the game from Steam, you don’t need Steam to be running in order to play."
http://supergiantgames.com/index.php/2014/05/transistor-preorder-soundtrack/

And Transistor is not the only DRM free game on Steam. Half-Life 2, for example, is as well... and a lot of others.
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mqstout: Not having the client to play doesn't mean its DRM-free. Can you after purchase move the game to any computer (including one that's never, ever, connected to the Internet) and have it play indefinitely without an issue? That's DRM-free.

Otherwise, it's DRM-at-install.
Agreed, IMHO Steam is at a minimum a DRM-at-install system & that alone is a bitter pill to swallow like a suppository (especially if the user lives where dial-up is king)