*** I am sorry for my absence yesterday and today. I didnt get out of bed yesterday until 3pm and went back to bed soon after. I went to the doctor this morning and put on antibiotics and I do feel a little better today and my headache has finally let up letting my stomach calm down. I have been able to catch up on RL responsibilities and I am tired out from them. I am going to take a nap for a few hours and I will be on when I wake up and start the process of catching up. I can ask to be replaced but I really would prefer to stay in the game and with only missing yesterday and some of today as Ill be on later, I feel it isnt warranted yet and it is more then possible to catch up as I am not that far behind. However, if others would prefer I do please let me know and I will ask to be replaced.

While this is true, how can a townie know who the other members of their team are early in the game? Is people agreeing on something or against someone a definite sign that they're on the same team, let alone on the town team? Townies self-preserving is to be expected, more so in the early game when they don't know who their allies are.


Would this be the first time that HijacK plays like a one-man team as town?


Is it really wrong for a townie in the early game, when the only one they know to be town is themselves?


And does this make him scum? If so, why and how?


Are the things that are off to you unrelated to their questioning of HijacK? If not, is it still best to focus on him, and just keep it in mind?

I hope you feel much better soon, Sage103082.


[emphasis added]

And how does docbear1975 flipping with no quotation marks upon her lynch fit in all this?


Since when do we not want, let alone not allow, someone on the chopping block to explain their claim and defend themselves? And what's with the rush lynching him already? At the time that you made this post, the Day was still young; why cut it short and stifle any and all discussions? I'm having a hard time seeing this come from a town mindset.


[emphasis added]

You quote here the whole passage from MS, and even refer to the description given there, yet you go on and on and on how he'd investigate as Miller. He'd return a "Miller" result to a Role Cop, and only to a Role Cop, should one be in our game and his claim true. It's pretty clearly stated in the text you quoted, and I don't see why you seem to overlook it and try to make it look like an investigation by any type of Cop would return a "Miller" result..

I can understand that you don't believe his claim, but you seem to be trying too hard here to make him look bad by just repeating yourself while using a mostly false argument.


He at least implied it when he first replied to yogsloth after the latter claimed to be a Death Miller.


Did you miss the explanations given regarding the role of an actual Road Captain? It was me who asked, and bler144 that provided it.


Why does this sound like you're taking the "You're right. I wouldn't have." out of context to make a point?


Is it just me, or does Sage103082's multi-post case against HijacK rings weird, to say the least? Not so much the arguments, as the tone and effort put in it, after he's been questioned and scrutinised multiple times about the same things. After prefacing her incoming posts with "I do try to go back and add to my post about someone else having addressed it before me. I missed doing it here" (post #669), she goes on to keep "missing doing it" for the rest of her posting.
She makes no new arguments (except for that mostly false "you investigate Miller" one), but instead of saying that she agrees with those already made by others, and summarise her stance, she goes on to address everything in detail all over again, and some things multiple times at that, saying almost the exact same things others did before her, but with quite some force. To the delight of Lifthrasil.

I agree with dedoporno on his "you are trying to sprinkle "How to be Town 101" types of comments here and there that have practically no merit other than cheap town cred" (post #681), and the effort she's put in her case against HijacK rings of the same, at best. HijacK told her that he doesn't think she understands how this game works (post #678). I'm not sure if she actually doesn't understand, or just pretends not to; she's proven to be both a smart and skilful player, and something about her feels off since D1.

That is unexpected and unsettling. One more killing role... damn.

1. No
2. Yes. While it is right to defend against a mislynch, saying 'Only my wellbeing counts' is very anti-town. Playing this game 'one man against everyone else' hurts town. That is my firm belief.
3. No. That just makes him annoying. The way he handled his hints and claim Yesterday and Today makes him scum. As I have already detailed.
4. Today most of the other things that I feel are off are connected to Hijack, because most of the day revolved around him. For example flubbs quick acceptance of HijacK's claim doesn't sit right with me. Sage feeling off is also related to her questioning HijacK. Somehow her posts read quite incoherent and while I know that that is the way she writes is sometimes difficult to follow, this time it feels like she pieces her articles together from what other people already said. So she could just be riding along. It doesn't feel like bussing though. So I don't think she's actual scum and I would place her as neutral, but purely by feeling.

One thing unrelated to HijacK is JMich's suggestion that the veracity of the flips might be exactly the other way round than we thought. Upon re-read I wonder: was that really just to be thorough and think of all options? Or was that an attempt at misdirection? Or just writing anything new just to have written something new.

Oh and something just occurred to me. HijacK said he'd flip 'Muscle'. That doesn't exactly sound like someone who kills using a gun. Which he later added. Also on a side note - we don't get role flips anyhow. Just faction ones. So he would either flip "Mafia" or Mafia. Not 'Muscle' or 'Elite Bodyguard'


Refresh: oh, I see you made that point against Sage too. So part of my post was redundant. Ah well.

(emphasis added)

It seems inconsistent to speculate that HijacK and yogs are on different mafia teams but conclude that Sage is likely neutral since she didn't seem to be bussing a partner. What about another mafia team?

A Death Miller Elite Bodyguard is such an outrageous claim that I find the likelihood of it being in the game very low. The fact that most don't seem to be blinking an eye about the claim makes me wonder just what the hell everyone else has as roles because mine is nothing spectacular (and no I don't want to discuss mine or anyone else's roles).

At the start of today, we received adalia's role and gogtrial's gun ownership. I think it's possible we may get more information on the deceased as the days progress. I believe the mod hinted at the possibility in the sign-up thread.

@Sage - hope you feel better soon!!

@trent - anyone ping you besides HijacK?

Yes, but I am not going to give you a list of names. If someone does something that I find to be more scummy than Hijack I will be all over it, but at this time Hijack is who I find to be the scummiest.

Current votes:
HijacK - trentonlf; Lifthrasil
Lifthrasil - HijacK

Not voting: JMich; HypersomniacLive; dedoporno; Sage103082; cristigale; flubbucket

Majority has not been reached.

Deadline in approximately 24 hours. Be kind to the European contingent and decide early! No guarantee enough will be on at deadline to reach majority! Of course, no-lynch is always an option! So is lynching the first person to suggest it! That's all the help you are getting from me...

I find the speculation of multiple mafia teams to be nuts. Given the amount of relatively sure alignments that were revealed, does someone care to run an actual hypothesis on the numbers and make a persuasive case for what a mafia team would look like in terms of members and how multiple mafia teams would fit into the player base? If the answer is no, I'd rather us cease this discussion. It seems loose, at best, and there doesn't seem to be a strong argument for it other than Wild WIFOM speculation that me and yogy are on different teams, to which I reply, LMAO.

Hyper, I will tackle your post shortly.

Nope.


We are getting delayed flips that may reveal such information. Like how adalia was revealed to be Divorce Attorney (I think this is an occupation, though) or zeogold was Puzzlemaster (his occupation seems to have been pastry chef but not sure because of the lack of capitalization). Also, there may or may not be a Flavor cop or similar that gathers these overnight.

RW said we are getting alignment flips initially which implies this can/will change eventually.


Roughly 20 around left. How about that plan of yours (I'm still mostly directed towards voting you, by the way, but I'm open to ideas which is why I'm still holding back).


Will you share these before the day ends? In case where you don't wake up in the morning and you are Town wouldn't you like to share your thoughts for next steps to the rest of us?

No really. The quotation marks are what for me are an indication he is not town. Nothing from him gave me scum vides during day 1, so I'd put it at a 50-50 chance between neutral and scum.

There is no set default town mindset that everyone has to abide to. For me, a town mindset would never involve a high chance of mislynch for the off chance of maybe getting the right information to solve the puzzle, Day 1 excluded due to its purely random nature.

I thought so, since I brought the argument up, but then I simply attributed it to him due to the similar claim. In my mind, his claim sounded like he was dressed like an old school mafioso, when in fact he claimed he was an old school mafioso. Simple correlational error due to previous bias.

That's the flavor reason that was given, you are correct.

Explanation above.

Given that I found that I was wrong regarding his claim, that made me look better at the reason given for his seemingly flip, which led me to find that he gave no reason for it, and that he never argumented the flip as a power. When I compared his claim to my PM, I became rather ashamed of how careless I've been. I could have easily pin pointed whether he was telling the truth or not. The way he claimed was simply erroneous given the role. I simply bought the Death Miller claim. And no, falling in disfavor with his family is not a legit flavor reason of why he flips as mafia. Take it rationally. If you dress like a doctor and you die, people will speculate that you were a doctor. He gave no specifics of why he flips different.

Are you implying that I should then adopt the same mentality? What exactly are you getting at? And what's this belief that there is only one way that town behaves and nothing else? Sounds pretty traditionalist and conservative to the point it's religious.

How is it mixed? And how do you so glaringly forget that flub was voting for me and I made an open endorsement that I think he is town? Mixed signals, or am I just acting according to what I think it's best for town? Here's something that I want you to ponder upon. Why do you think your way of playing town is the only way?

Or maybe I don't like it they underestimate my play and scum hunting and base their whole case on a wild claim in a wild role madness game with a lot of mechanics and a retarded argument that I used my real life responsibilities to gain an advantage.

Then go ahead and consider that.

Wrong answer.

This is 'Murica, and I speak fluent 'Murican English dialect.

I didn't ask for clarification, because I understand how it works as a power. Because I am town, there must be a reason for which I flip a different alignment. The reason is that this is in fact a power. And the flavor explanation that was given to fit in with the game is my clothing style. Do you understand now, or do I have to repeat myself again?

Then all this speculation and questioning I've been doing about game mechanics post claim must also look like fishing to you, no? Tell me, do you enjoy fishing?

I thought so, but I was happily mistaken. My final deadlines did not change, however. Alas, I would have probably called for an extension because I was not done by Friday evening, oh no. I was working at my girlfriend's and her internet died, so I could not reference the material of the simulation. It was awful, let me tell you.

Uhm, no? That's not even remotely close to what I was implying, but good try. I don't care that I'm investigated. I care that people tunnel vision like me. Tell me, is that how town should behave in your only and always right town style of playing?

I believe that mostly what I say is looked at, but I may be biased since I simply don't trust most townies with properly scum hunting. This is obviously anecdotal. I am, of course, speaking out of experiencing other games in which people forgot that beyond the person that's taking fire, there are other objectives as well, such as finding other scum!

He can read my reply to you. He is a smart individual and I trust his skills. Now, I'm leaning to think he is town, but I don't know for a fact, hence why I simply urged him to vote.

First of all, I never said that only me hurting is important. Lift is out of his mind and lying gloriously.

Also, the fuck? Since when does a relative ambiguous term for strength have to mean I can't use guns? This is just terrible rationale.

Sad and disappointing, but eh. I already resigned to the fact that town will let themselves influenced by wolfies and not be open minded about my situation and claim, or at least most of town. It's a recurring pattern with some of us.

My plan was for a quick and easy mass role claim. People are "critically thinking" about this whole situation in a lot of obscurity with very little to go on. We still don't know how weird roles are since only me and yogy claimed, it's Day 2 and your best guess is me, the only claimed protection role so far. Do I need to spell it out how bad of a situation it seems to be when we barely know anything and we're just taking stabs at game mechanics? Maybe if 12 or 11 of us were still around, things would have looked greener, but it's just 9 of us, and at the end of this day it will only be 8.

It's too late for that, as claiming wouldn't do shit at this point. Too little time, not enough to put all the puzzle pieces together. I'm kinda throwing the towel in and just trying to enjoy what little time there is.

That just sounds to me "don't worry, I suspect others, but I don't want to tell you until tomorrow when today's lynch will be completed and my views may be moot."

Just to see trent burn, my current list of scum, in order of preference:
Lift
Sage
Trent

Correction: post #748 should say

The quotation marks are what for me give an indication he is not town.

Uhm, no? That's not even remotely close to what I was implying, but good try. I don't care that I'm investigated/interrogated. I care that people tunnel vision on me. Tell me, is that how town should behave in your only and always right town style of playing?