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General discussionGOG Mafia #55 - Trouble at Arstotzkan Boot Camp(1211 posts)(1211 posts)
(1211 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted September 17, 2018
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SirPrimalform: I would absolutely without a doubt have my vote on Flub if he wasn't confirmed town. I kind of want to vote for him anyway, but at least he's good from a numbers point of view.
That's the reason I entirely disagree with Poppy when she says the mod reveal is wasted on him. It's not, in our player composition he is among the best options to get an early confirmation.
Posted September 17, 2018
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SirPrimalform: I would absolutely without a doubt have my vote on Flub if he wasn't confirmed town. I kind of want to vote for him anyway, but at least he's good from a numbers point of view.
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dedoporno: That's the reason I entirely disagree with Poppy when she says the mod reveal is wasted on him. It's not, in our player composition he is among the best options to get an early confirmation.
That's right. Otherwise we would be wasting lots of suspicion and back-and-forth thinking on him. As usual. :-)

It feels really weird not to have flubb in my 'valid lynch-targets' list. He had a firm place there in all previous games, even when we were scum together! :-D
Posted September 17, 2018
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supplementscene: VOTE POPPY - I know I'm Town 100%. I don't know if she is so it's a better to vote on that wagon and she seems as best first day lynch as anyone.
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PoppyAppletree: Honestly, that's pretty weak. By my estimation, only one player on my wagon was scum before your vote. If you're Town, then you're pushing that perilously close to an early lynch; I wouldn't expect another two scum buddies to pile in, but it would only take one more Town player and one of the scum to lynch me and end today's discussion. Especially since we've been having a fairly slow weekend with several players yet to contribute meaningfully and there are four days remaining on the clock, I really don't think that pushing a lynch to its conclusion favours Town. This is a bad move, and I would strongly encourage you to reconsider.

(Unrelated, the Serial Killer is a third party anti-Town role, but a Mafia role. They are the only possible bulletproof.)
How would you know who was Scum on your wagon or not? Only Scum know scum. Perhaps you feel people who have analysed you and got a Scummy feel from your posts are Scum. But they could simply be Town thinking you are Scum. I understand you probably feel victimised and there will Scum players on either your or my wagon.

That would bring it to 5. It needs 7 for the hammer to drop and now you're back down to 4. I was happy to choose between you, Lift or Desimu. But no one are on the other 2 Wagons other than yourself.

No, there were 4 people on your Wagon prior to my vote:

Poppy - 4: Lifthrasil, Dessimu, trentonlf, flubbucket
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trentonlf: Unvote PoppyAppletree

I really like this statement from her “It doesn't help Town to give up, though, so I'm going to take a breather, then come back later on and see what I can pick out.” I give big town points for this.

I don’t like this statement though from supplementscene “VOTE POPPY - I know I'm Town 100%. I don't know if she is so it's a better to vote on that wagon and she seems as best first day lynch as anyone.”

This is a vote of convenience with a LAMIST thrown in. He’s been on my radar with several of his posts, and I had him as my second choice for scum. His vote on Poppy doesn’t sit right with me. My gut is telling me I have it wrong on Poppy and that Supplementscene is scum.

Vote Supplementscene
This doesn't seem entirely logical. If Poppy was Scum wouldn't it be a LAMIST thing to say? You knock my analysis because it's 'convinence' when I have already given an analysis of her play and pointed out aspects that are either Scummy or unfortunate.

I have no idea who Scum is and we rarely get Scum in Day 1. Scum are probably one or two of the lurking Joe, Bookworm and Dedo rather than the vocal minority. (Okay @Joe, you may not be lurking. You maybe genuinely on a farm but this would be a good excuse for Scum to let Town rip themselves apart so you can pick up the pieces.)

So in that sense voting for another wagon over the only wagon I know that's Town is logical.

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supplementscene: The bulletproof talk comes from Poppy saying "I'm sure I'll live" in post 45 [...]
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HypersomniacLive: Except that my question to you was where it fits in with the setup we have, not where it comes from.

I was about to ask you what gogtrial34987 already did, namely if you had read the C9++ setup on the mafia wiki page that the mod linked to in the OP, but I just saw that you hadn't at the time. If the reason was that you couldn't open the page, don't you think it'd have been prudent to let us know and ask us to tell you what the setup is instead of talking and making arguments without having the full picture?

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supplementscene: [...] HSL - has a town feel. Asked reasonable questions and . Supposedly great at faking town according to Poppy. [...]
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HypersomniacLive: You seem to have left the first sentence incomplete. Would you like to amend that?

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supplementscene: [...] so reply to all points but don't always quote each post. [...]
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HypersomniacLive: Says the guy who thinks others are scummy when they address him without quoting him...

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supplementscene: [...] Or they maybe are 2 Townees bickering and tunneling. The latter I am learning I need to step away from somewhat. [...]

VOTE POPPY - I know I'm Town 100%. I don't know if she is so it's a better to vote on that wagon and she seems as best first day lynch as anyone.
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HypersomniacLive: You're leaning the Lifthrasil/PoppyAppletree confrontation being v/v, and vote her in the same post?

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supplementscene: [...] A thorough analysis of each player. [...]
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HypersomniacLive: You mean like this?

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supplementscene: [...] Trent - has jumped on the Poppy wagon and also read her as scummy. [...]
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HypersomniacLive: Where's your analysis, or even read, here?

I've noticed that you're often skipping questions, and need be asked again, or seem not to carefully read what others are asking you or replying to you, and I wonder - is this some sort of strategy, some sort of laziness, or do you perhaps have a condition that interferes with your reading and/or attention focus ability?
Please don't take the last part of my question the wrong way; there's no ill-intent behind it, I'm honestly trying to figure out if there's something out_of_game causing this all.
Why does this condescending post make me feel like a schoolboy being bollocked by a teacher? Hmm could condescision be a way to steer my play in the future? We will see.

You're asking me if it's strategy or my normal play. Well why don't you know? You read the last game enough to pick out 2 instances of my play so you should be able to make your own judgement. I'm guessing you were an observer in that game, this is my other game in Secret Hitler:

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/secret_hitler_1_legend_of_the_cows/page1

If you'd prefer to ask fellow players their comparison of my playing style. I've played twice with Lift, once with Trent, once with Dedo and once with Bookwyrm (very shortly though).

RE: HSL - I think I was going to write '..and hasn't done anything suspicious'. But Poppy pointing out you rarely vote interesting is a twist and I only saw that on a re-read.

I thought it was clear, I'm unsure whether Lifthrasil/PoppyAppletree confrontation is TT or FT. I'm only sure it's not FF as I don't think that would make sense.

Trent I'm not too sure on at the moment. I thought his initial analysis seemed logical. But now I'm wondering if Poppy and Trent could be Scumbuddies. Create distance by voting for her only to switch on a townee before the deadline.
Posted September 17, 2018
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supplementscene: Pretty spurious reasoning for a vote. TBH I think I covered most if not all of your questions in my Readings.
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gogtrial34987: I ask specific questions. You give general answers that are frequently not at all related to the thrust of my questions. (And the same with your answers to HSL's questions, and also with dedo's recent questions.)
I am trying to ascertain specific things about you, your playstyle, and your convictions with my questions. You preventing me from ascertaining those things is what earned you my vote. Let's look at two examples below:

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supplementscene: I think Joe's vote was either random or he's Scum targeting a known vocal townee to perhaps set off a wagon. He had nothing to go on at that stage and now he's left for farming. The likelyhood is it was random and I can't get a read from it.
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gogtrial34987: Let's go back to what you originally wrote in post #60:
"Joe voted for me and I tend to find people who attack me slightly suspicious but then town are meant to thoroughly investigate everyone and make sure they get a lynch."

I read that as "Joe votes me, which I don't like, but it can also be town behaviour because town investigates thoroughly."
I asked what you're referring to with "investigating thoroughly".
And now you're saying Joe's vote was completely random. So I'm left puzzled with your original reference to "thoroughly investigate". Which was the same puzzlement that led to my question in post #75. And which this answer from you still hasn't cleared up. Please try again, or tell me that I'm interpreting your original statement incorrectly, in which case I'd like to know how you intended it.

Then a question from #75 which you didn't quote in #121 at all:
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gogtrial34987: I'm interested in what you focus on in reading, so could you give me two examples of analysis that she's done which stand out to you as high quality?
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gogtrial34987: Note that I'm asking specifically about posts from Poppy before your post #63. She posted #3, #6, #13, #16, #24, #30, #33, #45, #52 and #55. That's certainly quite a few posts, but there's nothing I personally would describe as "high quality analysis". Which is not a dig on Poppy - it was mostly early RVS, still. But that is why your rather strong description caught my attention. So what I'd like to understand now - and back in #75, causing me to ask that question - is if you're someone who plays from feeling, making very strong claims without really having facts to back them up - which, I'll note, can be true for players of either alignment - or if you actually did see specific things in those posts that struck you as high quality - which would be helpful to me for calibrating my mental image of how you see the game - or if there's some other explanation still that currently escapes me.
These seem like strange points to focus on. You interpreted my initial post wrongly. It was a general comment. Joe obviously wasn't making a thorough investigation at this stage.

I initially found Poppy's attempt at analysis and to provoke discussion useful. She was helpful in her replies to me early on. You're right the standard of analysis probably isn't 'high quality' as such, maybe those were the wrong words. But if it weren't for Poppy and my own dialogue I don't think we'd have as much smoke as we do now. We've both made the most posts and made the most word count. Perhaps that's why we're the only 2 on the wagons. Whichever way you look at it we know more now and will know more after the lynch. And I would ask 'why did this player throw the heat on Scene and Poppy'?

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supplementscene: In the past I've made posts and analysis, forgot them and not included them in later analysis. I now have a saved copy of my analysis. This is kind of the opposite of Scum isn't it? A thorough analysis of each player. Choose to believe it's me playing LAMIST if you want but from a gaming perspective it suits Town not Scum to have thorough analysis.
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dedoporno: If you're Town I get where you're coming from with this but what you say is untrue. Having thorough analysis of others as scum can be equally or even more powerful as scum since proper preparation and data makes it easier to catch Town mistakes and use them against them. Scum can definitely gain from it but it takes time and effort and they don't have to rely on it. I think someone actually did this in a past game (may it was Bookwyrm or adalia, can't recall) - as some sort of Scum they spent so much time digging "useful" data and investing resources that were more helpful to the Town. So yeah, I happens and it doesn't automatically grant credit.
This is true, Scum could equally analyse in this manner to taint town.
Posted September 17, 2018
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SirPrimalform: Poppy - I find some people's reasons for voting her spurious and some more solid. SK-vibes, would support lynch.
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Lifthrasil: Why specifically SK and not regular scum? Can you elaborate where those vibes come from? Was it her 'Vig don't shoot' post or what?
Well the SK bit comes entirely from that to be honest, but I already thought some of the votes against her had merit.

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SirPrimalform: I would absolutely without a doubt have my vote on Flub if he wasn't confirmed town. I kind of want to vote for him anyway, but at least he's good from a numbers point of view.
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dedoporno: That's the reason I entirely disagree with Poppy when she says the mod reveal is wasted on him. It's not, in our player composition he is among the best options to get an early confirmation.
Which is what makes it so frustrating when he plays in a way that just helps to create smoke screens.
Posted September 17, 2018
Vitek has replaced PoppyAppletree
Posted September 17, 2018
Unvote: poppyappletree
Posted September 17, 2018
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gogtrial34987: As you just did a nearly full read, and thus have a somewhat "pure" view on it: Who all would you currently describe as real lurkers?
woah what a question. A day's past since I did the read, and I've been trying to skim over again. From my mind SirPrimalform is lurker extraordinaire, but I could basically say that at any point in any game and it would be true. dedoporno was, but certainly isn't any more. Uhhh... bookwyrm's addressed the situation, let's keep that up.
I've been reading but not posting a couple of times today, but I prioritised making a new avatar over posting. I'm sure everybody appreciates that.

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gogtrial34987: I also asked what the "farm" was a euphemism for. Which, I'll note, you didn't answer.
if you must know it was a weekend-long gangbang, but I preferred the euphemism. :p


I find myself on the weightiest lynch wagon. I don't know if supplementscene's play is particularly scummy; it certainly seems in character with his play last game, but he's as good a day one lynch as any.

that's crap isn't it? Is supplementscene just the loudest person? I'm running out of time, but I'll be back!
Posted September 17, 2018
Vitek has inherited Poppy's votes. Both active and passive.

When you see any votecount from me, please take a second to check that your name is shown voting for the correct person.

Vote count:

supplementscene - 4: JoeSapphire, gogtrial, trentonlf, Lifthrasil
Vitek - 2: Dessimu, supplementscene
flub - 1: Bookwyrm
Lifthrasil - 1: Vitek
JoeSapphire - 1: HSL

Everyone else - 0
Not voting: everyone else

13 players. Takes 7 to lynch.
Posted September 17, 2018
Hi vitek!

bye poppy );
Posted September 17, 2018
Hello, I am not Pikachu.

I feel a bit dirty from the situation and not happy I had to replace in but I'll try to make you all proud by being so bad you will cringe and forget what happened.


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Dessimu: Important: guys, my grandmother died yesterday
My condolences.


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JoeSapphire: ... She also finished by saying the re doesn't need to be any further discussion. Seems fair to me.
...
Joe is mafia.
No further discussion is necessary and that's only fair.
Or maybe he is not but no further discussion is needed anyway.
Posted September 17, 2018
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SirPrimalform: Which is what makes it so frustrating when he plays in a way that just helps to create smoke screens.
In what way do you think this confirmed town was creating smoke screens that would warrant his lynch if he wasn't confirmed?
Posted September 17, 2018
Hey Vitek!


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flubbucket: Unvote: poppyappletree
How come?
Posted September 17, 2018
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flubbucket: Unvote: poppyappletree
Why?
Posted September 17, 2018
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dedoporno: Hey Vitek!

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flubbucket: Unvote: poppyappletree
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dedoporno: How come?
..............

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flubbucket: Unvote: poppyappletree
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SirPrimalform: Why?
She's subbed out and the new player should have a chance to get situated.

I'm 90% sure Vitek is the replacement.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGOG Mafia #55 - Trouble at Arstotzkan Boot Camp(1211 posts)(1211 posts)
(1211 posts)