neither of those is an adage.

Soviet union was a corrupt mess after Stalin. Even if a few brief alternatives were tried, most anything would be doomed to fail under that hot mess. Also do you expect all new advancements in technology to succeed after one attempt, even in the best of conditions?

Vietnam now is a better example of a nation trying to look past capitalism, but they can't escape it entirely. Capital based markets are world wide, literally.

The false dichotomy fallicy. It's so tiresome and so disingenuous and gets uses soooo very much!

It goes like this, you have to have "capitalism" or "socialism/communism" These are your only options(aside from the super negatives like fascism etc), we know because psychic powers tell us so or why do we have to justify our baseless claims! You justify your claims we call baseless!

Now attach BS definitions that make capitalism sound great by default (and call all the issues with it little flaws because nothings perfect) and define socialism/communism as just anything government run. Or Russia or China, even though they are nothing like either. Basically define socialism & communism as taking away peoples freedom, because you say so. And since you've "established" it as the only alternative to "capitalism" because you say so, you win! We shouldn't take peoples freedom away!

Argument complete, rinse and repeat if your opponent tries to go into any details. Just blow off their complex arguments with some quippy sound bite you developed from the base false dichotomy position and you win! Congratz on defeating the idea of true freedom to win a argument

Final pro-tip, make sure to completely ignore inconvenient facts like succssful noncapitalist systems (US post office for example) have existed even in pro-capitalist places like the US and that there are many such examples.

Look, I really don't have the slightest inclination to discuss your "True socialism/communism has never been tried" bs (not exactly an original view), and it baffles me why you would think this is the appropriate forum for it. In all likelihood, your thread will get locked tomorrow, totally pointless thread.

Excellent use of the false dichotomy fallacy I just described.

Let's pretend you know what you're talking about: Will you gracefully accept the locking of this thread like the half-decent person that you can at best be at this point, or are you going to whine about oppression when the mods do the right thing?

Spider-Man swinging out of the thread like swoosh!