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Akhiris: Valve always said that if they were going to shut down the servers that they would unlock the games and you would have them forever.
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Wishbone: Please stop spreading that lie.
It seems like it's deep in the gamer collective conscience, and it's not going anywhere either.

We're going to have to start performing exorcism rituals on some of these gamers to rid them of this "myth" demon that has taken over their host bodies before it consumes all of us. :D
Post edited May 10, 2014 by JohnnyDollar
high rated
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MaximumBunny: So you've been under a rock for over a decade to the PC gaming scene and didn't know that some games are linked to clients...and then you huffed and puffed and got some pats on the back for it. Okay then. Next up, man cries over threatening looking pancake and seeks support from online community.
I think it's kinda fascinating that someone could have played a few games and not known about it. The reality is people very rarely have any idea how something gets boxed up and sold to them. There are always people in the know that like to think people are dumb for not knowing what they consider basics about how an industry works, but that's because people are part of that machine, and outside of it they are likely every bit as ignorant of what some other industry is doing to box up something else they buy.

It's part of why I think the idea that people that get suckered somehow deserve it is largely unfair. There is just too much in this world to not be ignorant of much of it, and that's something people selling stuff count on. They put things out there in the world hoping most people will only ever look at the pictures and read the bullet points without bothering to squint at all that fine print. To much to do, to much to know. We are all ignorant of something. We have all been had by someone's fine print, and anyone that says they haven't been is probably wrong.
This is why GOG is always my go-to place for games. I never have to worry about any kind of always-online-activation nonsense. If one buys a singleplayer game, they should be able to play said game without having to be online.
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IronArcturus: This is why GOG is always my go-to place for games. I never have to worry about any kind of always-online-activation nonsense. If one buys a singleplayer game, they should be able to play said game without having to be online.
What is this outrageous idea you speak of?!

Guards! This one is to beheaded at once.
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IronArcturus: This is why GOG is always my go-to place for games. I never have to worry about any kind of always-online-activation nonsense. If one buys a singleplayer game, they should be able to play said game without having to be online.
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gooberking: What is this outrageous idea you speak of?!

Guards! This one is to beheaded at once.
Mua ha ha!
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gooberking: If becoming "Steam Aware" in 2014 is your first encounter with DRM, you are still looking pretty good in the grand scheme of things. There are a lot of worse things still floating around out there. DVD's that don't work in some drives, games that take longer than they have to to boot, games that have activation limits, games tied to companies or services that are dying/sold, games that require not one, but two (maybe even three) layers of protection or accounts to play. Not being able to play because authentication servers are on the fritz or decommissioned. E-Books.
Or games that you cannot play out of the box because the drm embedded in the game conlicts with the disc copy protection scheme added by the publisher ( yes, you, Anuman Grrrrr ) or games that you cannot play anymore on Win 7 because the drm is not compatible with 7, although the game itself would work perfectly in compatibility mode.
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carnival73: Oh, those bastards. I hear they are also tied to porn rings and responsible for most of the 'penis enlargement' spam emailing.

Zombied quite a few PCs too from what I understand.
Better do a really good virus scan...or maybe even format and start over.
I would request an exorcism and hang garlic in the room too. /sarc
Post edited May 11, 2014 by Phc7006
Most games are pretty up-front about using online connection for verification like Steam so it is very much a caveat emptor thing - buy at your own risk. Steam is the best damn rental service in the world and with their crazy sales I don't mind renting my games for a low price for many years. So I'm okay with Steam and I'm also okay with GoG even though I usually have more problems with GoG games than Steam ones.

The only thing that bothers me in this thread (and others like it) is that people think that physical media is a guarantee that they can play the games many years from now - it isn't! I own Dune 2 on 4 floppy disks and yet I can't play it because I no longer have a disk drive. Last year I threw out a big cardboard box of VHS tapes because I no longer own a VCR (and the tapes were in poor condition from use). That's not even counting the problems with getting old games to run on modern OS etc. Sure I could buy a new VCR or disk drive but that would be costly here.

I love to preserve my books, movies and games, and DRM can without a doubt be a hindrance to that but just because you own the disk doesn't mean everything will be groovy 50 years from now. I don't like DRM so I simply wait for a game to come down in price until I'm willing to pay the rental fee for it.
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jepsen1977: The only thing that bothers me in this thread (and others like it) is that people think that physical media is a guarantee that they can play the games many years from now - it isn't! I own Dune 2 on 4 floppy disks and yet I can't play it because I no longer have a disk drive. Last year I threw out a big cardboard box of VHS tapes because I no longer own a VCR (and the tapes were in poor condition from use). That's not even counting the problems with getting old games to run on modern OS etc. Sure I could buy a new VCR or disk drive but that would be costly here.
Yep. This is why I vigorously support the GOG model and finally sold all my boxes a few years ago. The best preservation method for media is DRM free digital files.
Since the OP is likely to use Steam now to some extent I'd suggest some simple changes to make it more palatable given his concerns.

Steam -> Settings -> Interface -> Uncheck "Notify me about additions, changes, new releases and upcoming games"

This will stop the popup offers when you launch the client.

Steam -> Settings -> Interface -> Favorite Window -> Set to "Library"

This will make it so when the client starts up, you go straight to your games library instead of the storefront.
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hscott2hughes: snip
Very good post, and I wholeheartedly agree with all of it. It's harder and harder go buy disced games these days and just about all contain either DRM or handcuffs you to steam. Steam itself is an absolutely horrible idea, and I'm very thankful for the existence of Good old Games. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to buy games these days. Due to the demise of HumbleBundle (basically just a steam client these days), GOG is quite literally the only place I buy games; the only place I CAN buy games, because I loath DRM (which includes steam) and the need for a "hah, I see what you are doing now!!!" container application (again, like steam).

Practically the entirety of the gaming industry has gone down a very rocky path with sheer contempt and hatred for their customers, and what we are left with is this absurd situation where we pay top dollars for games, but don't even OWN the products we just BOUGHT. Like you say, we are effectively paying to rent the game, and are limited by whatever heinous limitations the publisher has put into its terms of service and suchlike, and how long they stay in business, or how long they bother to keep servers on (servers have been put 'off' even without bankruptcy).

GOG is the shining light in the darkness full of terrors. Thank you.
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jepsen1977: The only thing that bothers me in this thread (and others like it) is that people think that physical media is a guarantee that they can play the games many years from now - it isn't! I own Dune 2 on 4 floppy disks and yet I can't play it because I no longer have a disk drive. Last year I threw out a big cardboard box of VHS tapes because I no longer own a VCR (and the tapes were in poor condition from use). That's not even counting the problems with getting old games to run on modern OS etc. Sure I could buy a new VCR or disk drive but that would be costly here.
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StingingVelvet: Yep. This is why I vigorously support the GOG model and finally sold all my boxes a few years ago. The best preservation method for media is DRM free digital files.
The digital files aren't media, though. :) You have to store those digital files onto media. You can choose the media, but that doesn't guarantee you anything over a retail disc. You can make images of floppy disks and cd/dvd discs.

Also, the games are software, and there's no guarantee that you will be able to run the software in the future either. It's nothing to worry over, but you're right back to where you started, dealing with what media you're going to store the games on.

That's assuming that you want to retain possession and archive your games instead of leaving them on some server.
Post edited May 11, 2014 by JohnnyDollar
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JohnnyDollar: The digital files aren't media, though. :) You have to store those digital files onto media. You can choose the media, but that doesn't guarantee you anything over a retail disc. You can make images of floppy disks like you can with retail cd/dvd discs.

Also, the games are software, and there's no guarantee that you will be able to run the software in the future either. It's nothing to worry over, but you're right back to where you started, dealing with what media you're going to store the games on.

That's assuming that you want to retain possession of the game files and not leave them on some server.
"Media" as a term is used as an all-encompassing way to reference movies, music, television, video games, etc. That is the context I was using. Digital files are a better way to store media than physical discs, because you can back it up and on an open platform like Windows it should theoretically be readable forever.
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Tallima: Yay! Another joins the ranks! (that said, Steam is a great place to rent games for cheap during holiday sales and HumbleBundle.com sales)
Thanks, I appeciate that.

But, that said, I have no objection to Steam, per se. It's probably a perfectly fine place to buy games, as long as you enter into it knowingly. I joined into GOG membership having read all the rules and particulars BEFORE I made my first purchase and did so with my eyes fully open. There was no attempt to deceive you. GOG basically says: Here's a list of games that you can buy from us. If you do, there's no disc. It's a download. The game is yours to play as you see fit. What you see is what you get. No BS.

Steam is clearly more complicated than that, however, I would still have no objection to finding their site, reading all the rules and fine print (I read everything) BEFORE I decide to join and make purchases. As long as I know what I'm getting into, that's fine. I'll go along with their rules, even if they're not what I prefer, as long as I'm doing so by conscious choice.

And that could have easily happened. Had I known they existed, I could have surfed onto their site and knowingly purchased the Star Trek game from them as a direct download (no DVD necessary) with the understanding that I was doing so under their guidelines. Fair enough. But instead, I bought a DVD-ROM through Amazon.com (via a 3rd party seller) with the expectation that there was actually a GAME stored on that disc. I read very carefully. There is not one mention anywhere on the store page or the box photo regarding the disc containing nothing but a link/downloader for Steam. There is not one mention of Steam or online account. It is marketed as a PC DVD containing a game titled Star Trek.

It's not until you receive the box DVD that you find a very small bit of fine print on the BACK of the box that a "Steam account is required." This is NOT visible on the store photo and not mentioned in any part of the product description. By all accounts, you are buying a GAME, not a link to a website. Even the fine print on the back of the box (which you can't read until you receive the box in the mail--after you've already paid for it) does not equate to informing you of the disc's content or lack thereof. It doesn't say that there's no game on this disc. It doesn't say that you have to DOWNLOAD the game from a third party vendor that may or may not exist in the future--well, because THERE IS NO GAME ON THIS DISC! "Online activation" and "Steam account required" does not mean, in any form of English that I speak, that there is NO GAME ON THIS EMPTY, USELESS DISC! It means that you have to activate/register the game online. I've been doing that with virtually every piece of software I've ever owned for the last twenty five-plus years. That's nothing new. That's the old form of "DRM" (basically type in your name and the DVD's serial number on the product website and you're good to go.) Never before now has it meant that there's NO FRAKIN' GAME ON THIS EMPTY DISC!

That's what made me angry. I'm going to play the game. But I don't like how it was deceptively sold to me. Tell me up front what I'm getting or not getting and we don't have a problem.
Post edited May 11, 2014 by hscott2hughes
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StingingVelvet: "Media" as a term is used as an all-encompassing way to reference movies, music, television, video games, etc. That is the context I was using. Digital files are a better way to store media than physical discs, because you can back it up and on an open platform like Windows it should theoretically be readable forever.
Ah, ok. I think being DRM-free like GOG is better too, like you said. Then you don't have to worry about copy protection when you're creating images or backing them up on whatever media you like, and you don't have to deal with DRM when trying to play the content in the future.
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hscott2hughes: . I thought I was PURCHASING a GAME on this DVD. But, apparently, NO. As far as I can tell, there is NO GAME stored on this disc. There are NO "STAR TREK" PROGRAM FILES on this disc. The only program on this disc is essentially a LINK TO WEBSITE called "Steam.com"
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koima57: Hi, you may please excuse me as it is the weekend and I'm having some rum, with ice cubes and coke, 3rd glass.

I can't help to read that line you wrote, and my ribs hurt.. From laugther, I am really sorry.. :(

But I don't mock you! Relax... To ease your worries, Steam is seemingly the head of digital stores, and it has been stated if they ever go out of business, y
ou / we will have a way to keep our purchases. Also, there is an offline feature in their client.

For me, the only game I had felt offended by DRM was Captain Morgane from GamersGate,with 5 limited activations. Cheers and enjoy your game anyway, Trekkie! :)
Hahaha, well I was kind of laughing when I wrote it, too - even though I was kind of mad - because it's just so ridiculous. Anyway, I will enjoy the game. Thank you. :)
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tinyE: Holy Shit, I just realized something from the thread title.
The OP is John McEnroe!
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PetrusOctavianus: If he was John McEnroe he would go back to the game store, and trash the place while screaming obscenities.
LOLROTFLMAO! Nice! ;)
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jepsen1977: Most games are pretty up-front about using online connection for verification like Steam so it is very much a caveat emptor thing - buy at your own risk. Steam is the best damn rental service in the world and with their crazy sales I don't mind renting my games for a low price for many years. So I'm okay with Steam and I'm also okay with GoG even though I usually have more problems with GoG games than Steam ones.


The only thing that bothers me in this thread (and others like it) is that people think that physical media is a guarantee that they can play the games many years from now - it isn't! I own Dune 2 on 4 floppy disks and yet I can't play it because I no longer have a disk drive. Last year I threw out a big cardboard box of VHS tapes because I no longer own a VCR (and the tapes were in poor condition from use). That's not even counting the problems with getting old games to run on modern OS etc. Sure I could buy a new VCR or disk drive but that would be costly here.

I love to preserve my books, movies and games, and DRM can without a doubt be a hindrance to that but just because you own the disk doesn't mean everything will be groovy 50 years from now. I don't like DRM so I simply wait for a game to come down in price until I'm willing to pay the rental fee for it.
Very good point. Of course I'm a pack rat, so I still have all of those forms of media and the means to play them. I have floppy drives and I still use my VCR to record my favorite shows on VHS, lol!
Post edited May 11, 2014 by hscott2hughes