Jaft: Oh man, I read StarForce earlier in the thread. I absolutely hate Starforce. That's possibly the worse DRM I have ever had to deal with. I literally could not get past that shart to play my game - that I received from my cousin because he said he couldn't play it - and after much frustration, I just threw the box out.

Starforce is the DEVIL.

THE DEVIL.

jlibster: Ready about this one. Not sure which is worse but since SecuROM has been used more often its the one people want to hate more. But I agree, the reports I've read on Starforce are not good. How bad did it mess up your MS gaming box?

jlibster: = PS: you are in fact incorrect about nearly all game having DRM. Do more research in gaming outside of the mainstream super hyped media and you'll find them. Particularly the indie channels. There are MANY games (and many run in Linux FYI, of commercial grade) wth no DRM. most (if not all) Flash based games out there have no DRM either. I know this because I've purchased and tested them. Top ones that come to mind: Amnesia, Penumbra, Mechanium, World of Goo, Stitch in Time, and many others.

Jaft: O.o The Xbox? I was talking about the game box with it's cd, manual and other stuff inside. It was unplayable. And I just discovered a bunch of hidden StarForce registry keys still making love in my computer. I just removed them. -____- At least the securom ones aren't hidden like that.

I'm so glad that the Russians can play the game without it now. At least, that's what I think I read. That's a huge, huge blessing from the gods of gaming.

RatherDashing: You do realize that most DRM solutions are prohibitively expensive for smaller studios, right? It's small enough of a cost for multimillion dollar system-sellers, but for a tiny studio making less money per sale on lower quality(that is, lower TECHNICAL quality) games produced by smaller staffs, the cost FAR outweighs the benefits even IF the DRM did exactly what it purports to do.

Not saying you're wrong, but there's a sort of difference in scale and logistics here.

eisberg77: Unfortunetly, the pirated version was available and playable prior to the game releasing. So in this case, Securom did nothing for Day 0 piracy. The only thing that securom did was decrease our performance.

jlibster: "Size matters not, for my ally, is the force....".

You should remember that CDPR is also a "smaller" company than, say EA, MS or other gaming studios. There is the common and incorrect assumption that larger company=better game. Not so. Amnesia is one of the best examples. Freaking PERFECT for Halloween (or anytime you want to scare yourself or get an extra hug from a date...). Or "World of Goo". Or "Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness", who later made "Deathspank" after EA bought them out. Check out the reviews on these or better yet, PLAY them. (only $20) I mentioned professional level games as examples. Meaning they rival in quality to the "big names". You also forget that more "big names" these days are not making their own games as much as buying out more creative small names,

For those of you looking for the next upcoming near-traditional RPG of giant company quality google, "Age of Decadencee". Looks like one of the most promising old-school RPG games in years.n

jlibster: For those of you looking for the next upcoming near-traditional RPG of giant company quality google, "Age of Decadencee". Looks like one of the most promising old-school RPG games in years.

Coelocanth: I've been watching this one for a couple years now. I'm very much looking forward to it. Hopefully it's out by the end of this year.

RatherDashing: I'm arguing "bigger company=bigger budget". I'm an indie game fan myself. But smaller studios have less money, pay out less money, and bring in less money. As a cost concern, DRM is way too much for a smaller studio. While smaller studios also are generally better ethically, remember that from a logistical standpoint, a wholly selfish and cynical one, a smaller studio can't AFFORD to do DRM, because it cuts THAT much of their profits. Larger studios, with larger budgets, are relatively unaffected. It's simple finances.

The Witcher 2, compared to Amnesia or World of Goo, had a MASSIVE budget. To see a game of this technical quality(higher resolution textures, fancy effects, looks better on a technical level than any other game released in its time) get anything even approaching a legitimate DRM-free release is fantastic and nigh unprecedented if not ACTUALLY unprecedented in the current marketplace.

Coelocanth: It's going to make zero difference in sales. Zero. Once a cracked copy is available, everyone that wants it illegally is going to get it. Doesn't matter what CDPR does at this point.

Having said that, where, exactly, do you see CDPR having the actual game itself available for DL for anyone that wants to steal it?

electropretzel: a group of 10 people want to play the game so each of them puts 10$ and they buy it together, download and enjoy it a legal copy. now lets make it 50 people. Moreover, not everyone know how to put cracks and use keygens - thats why they prefare to buy the game. now they have the game on the internet without any need to download cracks or any other shit they need. Well instead of selling 80k more copies CDP prefare to give them away.

jlibster: PS: you are in fact incorrect about nearly all game having DRM. Do more research in gaming outside of the mainstream super hyped media and you'll find them. Particularly the indie channels. There are MANY games (and many run in Linux FYI, of commercial grade) wth no DRM. most (if not all) Flash based games out there have no DRM either. I know this because I've purchased and tested them. Top ones that come to mind: Amnesia, Penumbra, Mechanium, World of Goo, Stitch in Time, and many others.

jlibster: You seem very quick to defend Internet based DRM schemas which is interesting given how badly this one played out.