The bug I have decided to step it up a notch, so I'm afraid I'm playing above even my usual level of incompetence.

Looks like the HSL wagon has completely evaporated and votes are now split between Joe and mchack.

On the one hand, I already found mchack scummy, but that doctor claim doesn't look completely implausible. Argh.

On the other hand, I didn't have much of a scum read on Joe and my eyes are watering too much for a re-read (it took me about 45 minutes just to catch up from yesterday). I guess I might support it to avoid a no lynch.

I'll check in periodically to see where we are but I'm not up to much reasoning, sorry.

Some of the assorted things which stood at to me in a hasty mchack (interactions) reread:

My problem with the game so far is that there's not enough people I find scummy; my leans are all very lean. mchack apparently has the very opposite problem, as he seems to be scum-reading quite widely (with scene on D1 being a notable exception), with the cause frequently being the shade he himself threw a bit earlier.

I mentioned earlier how I liked mchack's answers once the heat started being turned up on him. But going back to before that, ... nope, I really don't like him one bit. It's true that Joe is far too floaty (though he has given a real life reason, which I'm treating as a given), but I like both his D1 voting and his "let the day play out" D2 stance. mchack's votes on the other hand seem to be votes of opportunity.

I don't have Bookwyrm's experience to see mchack's claim as a certain fakeclaim, but I'm pretty strongly townreading him (despite HSL planting some seeds of doubt), so I'm weighing that certainty pretty heavily. Flub also hasn't seen reason to move off mchack's wagon.

vote mchack

If mchack was off the table my next pick would probably be Joe or Ix, but any wagon on someone else other than Joe or mchack at this point is not going to give us any good info.

For the record, I'll still be mostly in and out (and more out than in) for the next three hours. Will be around for the final two hours after that. I'm taking every opportunity to keep up, but have completely abandoned trying to analyze yesterday. If anyone wanted a specific reaction from me to anything, please bring it up again.

nope HSL has not changed, the scumteam HSL + Joe + scene sounds plausible to me.

But yes discussing with HSL + Vitek made me realize that Joe was not as safe a townread as I had assumed myself, but then again Joe could have joined the discussion and changed my mind, but nothing that came from him yet makes me think him less likely to be scum.

The other pairing I'm thinking possible is Vitek + ixam(?), but I have nothing solid on them and all in all I like Viteks game so far much better then Joes in terms of town/scumreading, And vitek gave an endorsement of ixam (argh)...

and while bookwyrm makes my neckhair stand up, I still can't believe he's been teamed up with scene. If there is a SK this game, then he could be it.

The only scum I imagine is on my wagon currently would be ixam. (bookwyrm is neutral (sk) or town for me and flub is locktown and gogtrial is strongly townleaning) Ixam did make illogical statements about my claim and left for the day. hmm, is Joe + ixam possible? need to ponder this ... anyway, should there be a wagon jumping up on ixam, then I'd have no problem to join it.

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Will you reassert Bookwyrms townread after you see me flip town doctor, or will you simply let him get away with being so very wrong so very resolutely?

-You haven't tried to present as if you've copy/pasted your claim, so you don't have the easy "self-resolve" method Scene had. That's one difference between you and Scene. Another difference is that you're making the same claim he did, but you first got to see all the areas where his claim went wrong.

-Why would scum most definitely kill you tonight? They could kill whoever you protected last night, or they could kill someone you are calling scummy. Also, even if you are town, leaving you alive also leaves town room to doubt the claim of a doctor who didn't end up dead.

-My reason for lynching you is the most townie one there is: I think you are scum.

I've given the thread a first read from where I left off yesterday, and see that mchack claimed. I also see doubt, and some of it is quite forceful.

Before I go back and address individual posts, I'd like to ask two questions.

1. Why exactly do people consider a Doctor claim a safe fake-claim given how the game has gone so far?
Some have mentioned that the lack of counter-claim is one thing, so what would make a "counter-claim" (though I don't think that the term actually applies in this setup), which would be the third Doctor claim, more believable, and enough "evidence" that this one is a fake one?

2. If we assume that mchack is fakeclaiming, why would he do it by claiming Doctor over picking whatever other town PR from the C9++ roles table? Given mchack's D1 and D2, wouldn't it be easier for him to pick another role? Or do (general) you think that he didn't anticipate the scepticism and doubt?

Vote Count

mchack - 4: Ixam, flubbucket, Bookwyrm, gogtrial
JoeSapphire - 3: Vitek, HSL, mchack
HypersomniacLive - 1: SPF
Vitek - 1: Joe

Not voting - 1: trent

10 players. 6 to lynch

of course I haven't. I would've been modkilled for it. since I am actually telling the truth.

As I said before nothing in my pm prevents me from protecting the same person I protected the night before.
I'm getting tired to have to repeat myself all the time because you keep ignoring what I say.

sure they could kill someone I call scummy but they can do the same when you lynch me now.
it'll only two townies dead instead of possibly only one townie dead. (if Joe is scum indeed).
but if you don't lynch me now, I could be able to protect the person they are trying to kill (sure it's a gamble but the chance is there) so they are more likely to nk me but then again maybe there is yet another doctor out there who protects me (maybe a 1shot one) so for scum leaving me alive is very problematic.

For town on the other hand it isn't. Sure if I survive the night you can doubt me again. And you can kill me whenever you don't have any better targets. Or anything doesn't check out. Why not even try? You don't believe my claim. ok so you are tunneling on me and won't stop before I die. But who is scum with me then? HSL? What do you think of Joe?

My claim is true and if you'd even once consider this to be the case, then why aren't you at least asking Joe about his claim? about why it's better to leave him alive than to lynch the doctor? Why aren't you interested in him at all? Is he your buddy? or do you simply not care because you are the SK and just want to wreak as much havoc in town as you can?

Do you townread Joe so strongly, that you'd rather approvingly accept lynching a Town Doctor than at least put some pressure on him? you could at least ask him one question for show maybe? no?

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forget no-lynch for the moment. Do you want Joe claimed same as me before deciding on who you'll kill in a few hours, or do you believe it's enough that I let my pants down? (Interpolated: Hey, here's a doctor. jackpot let's lynch him no need to look further.)

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no bad dreams for me.

I forgot to answer this, sorry. No bad dreams in game (or in real life for that matter).

I haven't yet gone over his game #54, but would reading him as Town Doctor shed a different light on those uneasy vibes you got from his D1 and D2?


How exactly would another Doctor know if mchack's lying given the setup we're in?


Not sure I follow on the substance in relation to his focus on Vitek. Could you elaborate?



I don't think I've come across a fameclaim before. Is it the sort that grants the claimer a spot high on the mafia fame board?


When I first read your post #684, I wondered what the significance of how many minutes exactly it took him to post his claim. I see here that you considered it a too short time span. Putting aside that it wouldn't really take all that much time to type the content of his claim post, he's been sitting at L-2 for days now (minus a brief period where trentonlf had unvoted him to do a reread), i.e. it was quite likely he'd be put at L-1 at some point before deadline.
Do you think that only scum would prepare their claim in a situation like this? If so, why? And would you find it less/equally/more suspicious if it took him longer to claim post, and why?


Between mchack's post #686 (where he comments on it), and your reply to him in this post a good chunk of time had passed (can't tell now how much exactly thanks to GOG's shitty timestamps system, but something between over 1hr and 2hrs). Are you saying that you had left that tab open for all that time, and took the screenshot when you replied to him?


What do you mean with the part in parenthesis in relation to the RB?


Not sure I follow why the probability is very low. Because of the very small pool of numbers (96-100)?


Why do you like his stance? Because he was doing something with the time we had before he was called out, or simply because he said it?


Could you elaborate on this?

HSL, you are yet again asking a lot of questions but what is yours take on mchack's claim and current situation?


Hmmm, scene mentioned mchack only once the whole game and Hunter too single time, when he told he ahs no read on him.
Mchack talked to him or about him quite a lot.
Last game talked to his mafia buddies little but not least of all people.
Scene could be avoiding his buddy but I wasn't able to draw any real conclusion and if mchack was scene's buddy, he was treating his buddy a bit differently than last game.

1. The odds of us having 3 doctors on the game is not high so I would speculate at most two, so if there’s someone else who’s a doctor (not a one shot doctor) they would know Mchack is lying.

2. Joe has not given any real substance to the game other than his focus on Vitek, everything else has been rehashing what others have said or joking.


Joe’s sudden absence knowing we are close to a deadline is not looking good. As a matter of fact I wish everyone was on because I think we need more input from people before this day is over.

I actually have had a feeling that my failing to protect flub could've been related to said twist instead of a roleblocker, because the flavour that came with my failed message leads me to believe my action was re-directed to myself (like a mirror) instead of blocked (I wasn't held down by someone or something like that but rather I got lost and kept guard at my tent instead of buckets' (paraphrased))

So maybe flub is more than just an innocent but maybe some kind of mirror that reflects ones actions at oneself? (maybe scum could test this out tonight by attacking flub and see if they shoot themselves? for science!)

of course that'd have to be the twist then... as in C9++ with a twist

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sigh. now you too? you even have Joe down as scum, but still you are contemplating killing the doctor instead?
you people make me loose faith that you actually want to lynch any scum tonight. oh well. it's just a game isn't it. and we might still win anyway...

Now Vitek, do you take notes for your readslist and how it changes when I flip town? :P be ready to post when I get hammered...