CEST for next 12 days and then CET.

Hooray!

You may have made missed this:

I did with many other things that I don't know where to strat with.
I guess this is good option then.
I didn't because I stupidly believed he was dumb doctor who copied his PM and will get resovled by other means than lynch.
Before that I played too shortly to form a proper reads but I had him as acceptable lynch and would likely vote him if there weren't for the claim.

After reading it several times to figure out reasoning behind it I find it quite reasonable argument but it is speculation built on speculation and as such can't be taken as proving anything as there could be different reasons altogether.

Just to clarify, you thought a no lynch was a better option than lynching someone who was going to be modkilled anyway if they were telling the truth? I'm assuming that "resolved by other means than lynch" means you believed a modkill was incoming?

The fact you'd not been in this game long is a perfectly good excuse for not having another preferred lynch that you might have moved to.

However, if you fully expected a modkill for a truth-telling-copying-and-pasting doctor and you didn't have a preferred lynch, what was the thought process that made you decide a no lynch was better than hammering a doomed player?

After all, the two outcomes are functionally equivalent.

If you're scum: *applauds* Great way to buy yourself some time and make me doubt and feel terrible.
If you're town: I'm sorry! You make a lot of sense. I just believe in your ability to make a lot of sense as scum. And we still have a very good chance of winning this even if we mislynch you.

@SPF, @Vitek, and hell, @HSL:
Given our current knowledge about trent, do you get any pings from the sequence between trent and Bookwyrm from #891 through #900?

Actually, please clarify "everything".
Are you referring just to #1075, or also to posts from before that?
I can see myself reading a few of your points "the opposite way", but all of them? Was this hyperbole? (If not, feel free to do a point by point summation of what you meant, and how I read it, to show that it really is everything.)

Nothing that really jumps out.

#892 could look like trent is trying to prod/coach wyrm, but it's not very strong in isolation.

Have you spotted something specific?

I believed the claim and thus thought of it is breach of rules. That's someting that should be always handled by mod, not players, IMO.
It might have the same equivalent outcome but I acted mostly instinctively in hte short time window we had and that's how I approach the game. Even as mod I wouldn't want people to lynch someone who should be mod-killed.

Make your own opinion for once instead of stealing ours constantly. :-p

I don't. Or precisely I don't feel nothing malevolent from it and wouldn't pay attention to it unless you brought it up. Could be easily be banter between 2 mafia, town and mafia and even 2 towns (pre-flip of course). And that trent tried to point BW toward SPF? Could be done between 2 buddies to hopefully avoid unnecessary lynch or mafia trying to re-direct townie as easily. I personally can't really tell.
But yet again it perhaps gives few town points to SPF. For mafia trying to bring him up into discussion.
What do you make of it?

I'm mostly thinking about the #896-#900 bit. It's such... superficial banter. I could read it as two mafia getting in some consequences-free interaction ("look, we're not avoiding each other at all!"), but then I'm immediately wondering "why would they risk going that low-content?", and thinking it a town pointer for Bookwyrm.
I was hoping either of you would independently bring that up so I could trust in it a bit.

(The mindset I imagine here is that mafia is constantly hyper-aware of each other, and of their own back and forth interactions. Maybe that's too strong though for experienced players like these?)

Heh.

I expect Mchack to have already read his game-starting PM info LONG before the time when Scene 'copy/pasted', and to have a good idea of what his role can and can't do.

If someone sees a PM matching their role that goes something like
--> "Blah blah, you are Blah blah (blah). You can blah blah blah." (Scene's PM claim)

but the reader's own PM says something like
--> "Blah blah, you are Blah blah (blah). You can blah blah blah.
You can't blah blah blah." (Presumably Mchack's PM)

then I expect the reader is going to go "Huh. That doesn't look quite right.". This isn't even a 10 minute cross-checking, just a read-and-react expectation.

I even specifically said that I wasn't expecting a word-by-word comparison, just material covered.

Question for you, HSL: In our current game, do you think it is useful to spend time and energy worrying about whether there are 4 mafia and trying to solve that potential scenario? If so, why? How long should such a scenario be pursued?

Because I'm awesome, and I have your best interests at heart (solely because they are also MY best interests, but lets not get bogged down in details).

Want us to fix that? ;)

You figured it out! Here's your cookie. ;)

If you do find any breadcrumbs or hints or whatever in that exchange, please let me know. I enjoy being smrat unintentionally.

I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad, nor am I trying to buy myself time. And no need to apologise. I've got myself to blame for the most part; I allowed my frustration and worry about things to affect both my focus and the way I conveyed my read of the board, and thus have played right into the hands of the mafia.
So after mulling over things, I'm back where I was a week or so ago: the town will be better off with me out of the picture (you should have lynched me D3 already), and you'll work better together come Tomorrow.

Don't mistake this for an AtE to avoid my lynch; I meant it back then, and I mean it now - do it, and move on. While I'm confident that Bookwyr627 is the last standing mafia, I'm not afraid to flip, and believe it'll help town.

Just one comment (anything else can wait for post game, if even then), but this continues to bug me even after sleeping on things.

This is the second time you're making a comment of this sort, and I'm not amused any more. I resent this. You've seen me be scum before, we've even played in a game where I was - have you ever seen me use such cheap tactics? I'm sure I haven't, so why would you think that I'd start now, especially in a game where every little thing I say or do is under heavy scrutiny?


As for PoppyAppletree's posts, they'd fall into "distancing if I squint"; my overall read of her (D1) hasn't changed after doing the trentonlf+her ISO.


I've already said what I think of posts #891 - #895, with perhaps a bit of disguised fearmongering regarding the SK. I don't read anything in the sequence you're mostly interested in. It looks like killing time during a time span the Americans are awake, and the Europeans asleep; can't tell now by the timestamps, but that's how it looked to me back then, and still does.

Interpreting this as non-game: You have my apologies. I must've been too deep. I know I felt ... flattered by the remark when you made it. That stuck with me, and then only later on I looked back on it and re-interpreted it as a deliberate action which nearly succeeded in making me feel more positive toward you.

I've written and deleted an unvote half a dozen times now.

In the end, I'm going to stick with the vote, since I believe the case is still valid - this one point barely contributed - but I'm very much wavering on the overall feel.


@Vitek, @SPF: Where are you with your decision processes?

Sometimes you just make your best guess and take the plunge. I'm glad you're (currently) siding with me, but the statement stands even if you ultimately side with HSL on this lynch and flip me.

That wasn't even what I meant with that comment - it helped me because of the reactions it caused, which in turn gave clarity I was needing/looking for regarding my own reads.



How long? Not a second; you're the last standing mafia.