Neat story, full of drama and suspense, well written, might even win an Oscar for best picture. The biggest problem with it is that it's not a true story. I am not scum, wish I were scum as this would be a lot more fun than it has been, and if I were scum and ZFR was a teammate of mine I would have bashed his head in with a hammer and giggled as he bleed out for how he played Day 1.

I'm just trying to still figure out if you are just a delusional tonwie or if you are scum trying to get me mislynched at some point.

I'm pretty sure you told yogsloth like 10 posts ago that gun to your head I was scum. That seems like you've moved past figuring it out, don't it?

OMGUS aside, theoretically, what concerns do you have about me other than me suspecting you? Looking through your D3 posts I'm not really seeing a case for scum!Bler other than your theory that I'm buddy-protecting SPF, which is of course also dependent on scum!SPF which may or may not even be true.

And now that theory also stretches towards scum!SPF+scum!bler+scum!Joe since we could have done the ol' "Whoopshammer!" (aka, the Yogsloth), and if that's the team do you think I call the dogs away from lift and onto Joe for his lack of voting only to turn around and ...defend Joe?

Last thing I have is anything figured out. I have some what I think is good ideas, and as I said earlier I think the scum team is within you, Joe, SirP, and Lift. I will gladly lynch each and everyone of you so if that is me having it figured out then I guess you would know for sure

Wait, so if you lynch Joe and he's town, your follow-up is to...lynch the two people who could've easy-hammered him but didn't (Oh, sorry town cop Joe!) and Lift for...what exactly? Just driving the train on cristi and a personal beef with HSL?

And you feel this certain despite preceding it with "Last thing I have is anything figured out."?

That's the glory of it all, I'm not sure if I'm right but I think I am so I will go with it even if I'm wrong

lol :)

Additional notation on SPF: SPF doesn't block Flub on the night Flub winds up dead, regardless of quite a bit of expressed suspicion. May be a coincidence, since town tend to changes targets from night to night.

==========

Is Bler scum?

Not sure, but there are a lot of things I'm seeing that I don't like.

Preface: To be fair, I read Adalia's notes before diving into D2, so I did have some bias while reading. Towards the end of D2, Adalia was placing him on the scummy side of the scale. Adalia's shift is visible in thread as well.
Yes, maybe there is some OMGUS here since Bler was shading Adalia the whole day, and throwing some doubt my way in the process (am I really back to null because I'm replaced for a Day? Did your Day 1 interactions with me suddenly count for nothing?)

Day 1, I had Bler fairly town.
Day 2, I see Bler mostly just floating along, letting things take their course. He didn't push hard, just stayed visible and let people fight things out. I can also see his energy level slowly sinking, and I can't help but wonder if it is his expressed distaste for being scum.

I was struck by Joe and Bler both starting Day 2 basically hard siding ZFR as town...because. Joe's about face is distinctly sharper, while Bler leaves himself slightly more of an out. Feels like they maybe decided to shift focus away from ZFR, since he's VT -> "Why lynch VT when you can try to out more PRs and maybe get a lynch on one of those?"

Some specific problem posts:
-Bler in 811 and 812 accuses Adalia of providing no reasoning for Adalia's cristi vote. Counter examples: Adalia's 627 (his opening post, no less) and 662. Looks like Bler also questions Adalia on Ele; Adalia mentions Ele in 794.

-Plenty of shade in Bler's 1058. Also, bringing up the doctor as a 'counter claim' to a RB rubs me wrong.
--Joe later grabbed the doctor bit and pushed it a bit farther with that poll.

I do have this question for you, Bler:
Why? I don't think I saw an answer or expansion on this in your posts.

==========

Is Damnation scum?

Not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a scum flip here.

-I do not like his focus on using flavor as his means of assessing a claim.

-Both Damnation and Joe were being very distracting at the EOD 1.
--Damnation posted a tease twice while the timer is ticking lower, before FINALLY revealing that he was teasing about a guess of a role name. Joe picked it up for consideration after the second time.

-Post 582 is terrible. Willing to lynch ZFR to prove his name? You honestly thought for even a second that someone is going to try and fake claim a name?

-He's lurked hard on Day 2 and Day 3, and a lot of his posts/logic are about flavor. Oh goody.

-Damnation, Post 891:
--"Thus, a backup Cop brings an excorberant amount of power to town"
--"She [Cristi] bemoaned us for not lynching a vanilla, so I really wonder why she thought she was more worthy of staying here than ZFR?"
--"No matter which way I turn this, I only come up with Cristi having claimed vanilla, and one-upping ZFR's vanilla claim, and nothing more. Her death doesn't remove power from the town anymore than ZFR's death would, but it might pack more information"

So a backup Cop is very powerful, but Cristi is as powerless as Vanilla if she is a back up cop. Apparently I'm the only one who had a problem with this logic.

-I don't like his D1 "If I'm reading serious, I'm joking, if I'm reading joking, I'm serious, except I might be how I'm being read" excuse.

-When someone bites him, he goes "ooo, you bit back. I like that!" Mafia attempting to soothe anyone who goes after him?

==========

Is Lift scum?

Could easily be.

-Lift came out very hard on Day 2. Considering the level of suspicion on his slot, this looks like him rampaging in to push lynches for scum or at least muddy the waters in case he gets off'd soon. Yes, a meta-read, but scum!Lift is more than happy to take a dive for the team, especially if he's already near the edge.

-He's been throwing anything and everything that might stick at anyone it might stick to.

-Lift 890: Instead of a doctor, what if the strongman (if it exists) is meant to cut through a Roleblocker? :P

-Lift pushed to Brig Flub. Who else?
--SPF (makes sense after D1)
--JoeS and Ele are the other two votes here.

Wait, you're giving me a hard time for questioning adalia on his cristi vote because I didn't recall something he said 150 posts earlier? That's...why I'm wolfy?

...

lol

When I wrap up laughing, let me go back and look at the Ele thing.

IIRC he was also the one who initially brought up Godfather in relation to ZFR's president claim, which became at least possibly more interesting with cristi's claim and later flip. But I tend to think that's still noise. Of your suspects, he's the one I'd be most inclined to lynch.

He's not the only one who brought up names - Joe I believe did as well, in wondering if toasters have completely different name formats in which case they would have to potentially fake claim names as well.

I find the prospect unlikely, since that would be a game less about solving and more about scum guessing which names are unclaimed, but I don't find it particularly damning for either player to wonder either.

meanwhile, though, I hesitated to bring this up when I first read it, but the more I sit on it I'm reminded this is exactly the slip you made in Yog's Dungeon game that I likewise didn't make a fuss over and then regretted. What exactly were you doing here:


Ah, Bookwyrm. Good times, good times.

Layered in WIFOM, of course, but you basically just claimed not=cop, and probably not=VT, but you're not counter-claiming SPF even though you're throwing shade at him, so no one should be surprised when you're not tonight's NK because you're really Stump or something and no one will be surprised when mafia try to NK somewhere else.

Good thinking.

I enjoy playing with you because it's never dull.

Point taken.

TROLOLOLOLOLO

;)


EBWOP: To clarify, I would lynch Lift lacking any reason to not not lift lynch, I just think all the arguments are meh. He's low hanging fruit, and even if I disagreed, I would say adalia pushed as hard/harder for cristi lynch than Lift did, but even as someone arguing against the cristi wagon yesterday I don't think the wagon on cristi makes much of a case against anyone since there were effectively 9 players willing to vote there.

Or maybe I just tune Lift out better, IDK.


4/5) are the same. If I had a protection role I would be literally all over SPF as soon as cristi claimed. Thus why I assumed that's what flub was doing.

Apparently I'm alone on this point and everyone else if they were town protection would just chill and not worry about Town!Roleblocker just hanging out with a secondary protection role, doin' his thing despite all the balance problems that would exist in that world, rather than, like, making sure to attack a high% toaster and then making analysis off that.

As a digression, I think too many players have expressed attitudes that are way too reliant on PRs winning the game. I know it has happened, but it's really not a reliable method and the game is supposed to be solved, ultimately imo. Though perhaps that makes me a hypocrite for not rushing to just lynch unopposed claims on Town PRs. IDK

3) I looked, I have no idea what you're talking about.

2) At risk of getting myself LALed, I'm going to go off memory here - the reason to hard-sort ZFR is the same meta thing you mentioned, which is the very set of posts I linked to yogsloth after he joined. For one, I'm kinda uncomfortable "solving" the game on that basis even if it's true, and two, while it's very good, it's not absolutely beyond fake-able. Maybe he was scum goon and found that dull, or maybe he hadn't considered he couldn't switch but created a great anecdote around it. As you say, he's a pretty smart, clever guy who would have had a full week to think about that exchange.

But this is one reason I favor a Trent lynch - unlike you I don't see an HSL/ZFR connection, considering ZFR never went past L-2 by my count, HSL couldn't have hammered there anyway. Even had the day been extended Joe shifting to cristi would have made ZFR L-3. So that part of your argument was also flawed. scum!trent definitely and maybe scum!HSL (your jump to SPF after I pushed ZFR to L-2) are really the only things I see that point to a possible scum!ZFR.

That said, I'm back on ZFR partly because I'm town - Joe I think is town despite the votederp, if yogs is town...either ZFR ain't, or everybody was on the wagon. That's just how it looks from my chair. The other ZFR problem I mentioned is that we wasted most of D1 deciding would we/wouldn't we on ZFR, and he's already claimed. So the only reason to go back to him is new evidence, like, say scum!trent.

1) My distaste for being scum would probably have emerged after 3 RL days, and even back then I usually hit a lull around 2 weeks and then hit the wall completely around 3-4. On top of that, I have a very different job and set of life responsibilities than I had the last time I played. So sure, I'm tired and some days frakking suck. I don't remember which day exactly, but about 10 nights back was in a fight here that made me think we were bound for divorce (not me and you -I would never leave you, bookwyrm483!) and with colleagues dropping around me, I don't feel like I have the greatest job security and bought a house at the top of the market that we can barely afford even if we stay married and we'd be lucky to sell level (with a loss on transactions fees), and...yeah, my life is a frakshow, and I probably should not have agreed to play and in many ways would prefer to wrap up the game.

But I'm definitely (trying) to work for townvictorycondition!

Funny story, but I came into the game with a rough idea of how I wanted to WIFOM my level of towniness/scumminess in terms of balancing how to either draw/deter NK and then ran into Ele and SPF who reminded me that people who haven't played with me don't know how to read that, and all that went out the window, since getting lynched for being myself wouldn't be so helpful for town.

/shrug

EBWOP - I probably should've edited that before posting. A few of those sentences are barely in English. See me address ZFR here:

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_reboot_battlestar_goglactica/post720

The other major "energy level" issue I expressed openly D2 is a topic for post-game so...I kinda view that as a cheap shot, frankly.

You also raised the issue earlier of my reads on you D3 vs. D1 -


I addressed that with adalia D2.

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_reboot_battlestar_goglactica/post828

I find the swap problematic in general, and you're asking me to remember reads on you as distinct from how your slot has been occupied for a week+ of active play. But if you look back to what I'm pretty sure was my last reads list D1, here's where you were:

"Null, will likely sort through play later. Highly unlikely to vote in current gamestate:
cristi
Wyrm
fraknation"

So...I'm not even sure what you're arguing. I had you as null as of 7/10. So even swap aside, if your role had just not existed for 14 days and then blinked back to life, I listed you straight up as null, so I'm wondering what you want me to count for/against you given that fact.

adalia certainly piqued my interest in your slot D2, but I re-read the both of you N2 and had mostly dialed you back to null, but D3 now I find you quite interesting.

Can you clarify in detail how exactly your proposed scum!ZFR + scum!HSloth theory works? The evidence I can see really doesn't seem to support that. Nor does logic seem to hold for your theory on town!SPF + town!trent. I don't think these are merely differences of viewpoint.

Thanks!

Dammit, I really should be editing. EBWOP:

"scum!trent definitely and maybe scum!HSL (your jump to SPF after I pushed ZFR to L-2) are really the only things I see that point to a possible scum!ZFR. "

That should say "scum!trent definitely and maybe scum!Wyrm" which should be apparent given the 'you' in the parenthetical is Wyrm, not HSL.

Off to bed I guess, since I met my quota of posts/words for the eve and no one seems to be around.

Whooo boy. Did you really just claim to have a PR? Without any pressure on you right now? Why? If you're town, you just put a big target sign on yourself. Or you are scum waving a 'hey, I'm valuable' sign around. Either way, I'm quite surprised that you would do that. So why did you do it?


I don't think we have four scum. Or phrased differently: if there are four scum then Joe is probably one of them. Otherwise they would already have quickhammered and won. Still, we don't have much lee-way to mislynch anymore. I am surprised at the speed the Joe-Wagon built up and yes, the first association with a high-speed train is, that scum is driving it to lynch a townie. ... But is that really necessarily so? It could also be that scum was driving it especially fast to make the train look bad, because it is a valid train on one of their members. 'Oh look at the speed of that train, I have to jump off' is a natural town reaction. Scum can risk a gamble like that, because they know that no townie will quickhammer. What I'm trying to say is that Joe doesn't look townier to me just because he was driven to L-1 so quickly. But no matter whether we assume that Joe is scum or town, I am quite confident that there is at least one scum, if not two, among the three who hopped on so quickly: yogs, Bookbooks, ZFR.

1. True, that's a possibility. So if we get a strongman flip from someone it would probably mean that SPF is town and we don't have a Doctor. So perhaps that speculation about a strongman was true after all. I actually could see a strongman-trent declaring smugly: "Nah, I didn't feel any blocking tonight!"

2. Do you mean who else pushed to brig flub? Or whom else I pushed to be brigged? If the latter: ZFR. I was one of the proponents for putting ZFR in the brig after he claimed Vanilla since it was a no-lose/some possible gain situation for town.


Prepostedit: ran out of time. There is more to come. I'm not through all posts yet, but work is calling.

I WANTED to know what people THOUGHT of the doctor claiming. I DID NOT WANT THE DOCTOR TO CLAIM.

I'm just catching up, but I'm getting frustrated and Trent and others deliberately misunderstanding this.