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Wishbone: I still prefer GOG.
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Prator: In theory, what could you do about if GOG decided to cancel your account?
I actually like not "owning" the games on steam, because it means there's less junk I need to contend with both on my computer and in my room. I've got a ton of game-boxes just lying around; I'm probably not going to play them anymore, but not a lot of people necessarily want to buy them. On top of that, I need to regularly wipe my computer clean of all the games I'm not playing and which are taking up valuable hard-drive space.
If, on the other hand, there's all this digital memory of games I own on a server somewhere, I don't have the hassle of trying to make space for everything. It's all on the server, taking up minimal space on my PC and no space in my home. I think the sheer convenience of the system is worth the possible risks.

As a person who archives his downloads from GOG, I wouldn't worry too much if GOG decided to cancel my account. That;s the beauty of GOG, you can choose to store your games that you buy from them and they do not require you to have a data mining client installed on your computer or anything else, except for DOSBox which is needed to run the older games here, except for the game itself.
Therefore GOG > Steam.
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cogadh: Very interesting, but I question whether that would really stand up to legal scrutiny. I am certain that, at least in the US, local law can and will override a subscription agreement, even if that agreement happens to claim a particular jurisdiction, like Valve's does. In fact, it pretty much states that in section 15 of the agreement.
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Wishbone: Then I suggest you go back and read section 14 once more. I, as a European, may be exempt from some of the clauses in that agreement, but you, as an American, are explicitly not.
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cogadh: I don't expect they would ever do this, but I'd really like to hear from Valve what circumstances would make them enact 13C2.

Yes well, they very carefully avoid mentioning that at all, meaning "for whatever reason they like".

You misunderstand, even if the agreement says I am bound to a particular jurisdiction, if a legitimate court in say, Michigan, were to determine that any part of that agreement is not legal or invalid in some way, then it does not matter at all what the agreement claims. It's part of the "beauty" of the American legal system, even what sounds like the most iron-clad agreement is nothing more than paper to the lawyers and judges.
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Wishbone: I still prefer GOG.
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Prator: In theory, what could you do about if GOG decided to cancel your account?

Well, for one thing, I could keep playing all my GOG games, as well as install them on any new PC I might get in the future, since I have all the installers backed up.
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Prator: I actually like not "owning" the games on steam, because it means there's less junk I need to contend with both on my computer and in my room. I've got a ton of game-boxes just lying around; I'm probably not going to play them anymore, but not a lot of people necessarily want to buy them. On top of that, I need to regularly wipe my computer clean of all the games I'm not playing and which are taking up valuable hard-drive space.
If, on the other hand, there's all this digital memory of games I own on a server somewhere, I don't have the hassle of trying to make space for everything. It's all on the server, taking up minimal space on my PC and no space in my home. I think the sheer convenience of the system is worth the possible risks.

I'm sorry, how is that different from GOG? Except of course for the fact that if Valve do cut you off, all your Steam games are gone. Your GOG games aren't.
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cogadh: You misunderstand, even if the agreement says I am bound to a particular jurisdiction, if a legitimate court in say, Michigan, were to determine that any part of that agreement is not legal or invalid in some way, then it does not matter at all what the agreement claims. It's part of the "beauty" of the American legal system, even what sounds like the most iron-clad agreement is nothing more than paper to the lawyers and judges.

I like the fact that you put quote marks around the word "beauty" there ;-)
Post edited July 08, 2009 by Wishbone
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Prator: In theory, what could you do about if GOG decided to cancel your account?
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Wishbone: Well, for one thing, I could keep playing all my GOG games, as well as install them on any new PC I might get in the future, since I have all the installers backed up.
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Prator: I actually like not "owning" the games on steam, because it means there's less junk I need to contend with both on my computer and in my room. I've got a ton of game-boxes just lying around; I'm probably not going to play them anymore, but not a lot of people necessarily want to buy them. On top of that, I need to regularly wipe my computer clean of all the games I'm not playing and which are taking up valuable hard-drive space.
If, on the other hand, there's all this digital memory of games I own on a server somewhere, I don't have the hassle of trying to make space for everything. It's all on the server, taking up minimal space on my PC and no space in my home. I think the sheer convenience of the system is worth the possible risks.

I'm sorry, how is that different from GOG? Except of course for the fact that if Valve do cut you off, all your Steam games are gone. Your GOG games aren't.
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Wishbone: Then I suggest you go back and read section 14 once more. I, as a European, may be exempt from some of the clauses in that agreement, but you, as an American, are explicitly not.
Yes well, they very carefully avoid mentioning that at all, meaning "for whatever reason they like".
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cogadh: You misunderstand, even if the agreement says I am bound to a particular jurisdiction, if a legitimate court in say, Michigan, were to determine that any part of that agreement is not legal or invalid in some way, then it does not matter at all what the agreement claims. It's part of the "beauty" of the American legal system, even what sounds like the most iron-clad agreement is nothing more than paper to the lawyers and judges.

I like the fact that you put quote marks around the word "beauty" there ;-)

I also like the fact that I can change COUNTRIES and not worry about my GOG games not working and redownload them as if I have never left. Good luck doing that with Steam.
Post edited July 08, 2009 by JudasIscariot
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JudasIscariot: I also like the fact that I can change COUNTRIES and not worry about my GOG games not working and redownload them as if I have never left. Good luck doing that with Steam.

True. You can even change countries, and still pay the same price for a game as you would have done where you lived before.
You guys who keep saying that Steam is renting games are ridiculous. People ask that in the forums every day and get the same answer. In the unlikely event that Valve went out of business (they can't be bought since they are a privately held company) they would release a patch for all their games so you can run them without steam. Valve is not going anywhere anytime soon, they are perhaps the most beloved game company in the world and make tons of money. Not to mention that Steam is the most popular digital download service.
Don't get me wrong, I love GOG, but Steam is a great service as well. I own over 200 games on Steam and have had no complaints. BTW, The Dig just got patched and works now so LucasArts must have released the wrong executable.
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jsdratm: You guys who keep saying that Steam is renting games are ridiculous. People ask that in the forums every day and get the same answer. In the unlikely event that Valve went out of business (they can't be bought since they are a privately held company) they would release a patch for all their games so you can run them without steam. Valve is not going anywhere anytime soon, they are perhaps the most beloved game company in the world and make tons of money. Not to mention that Steam is the most popular digital download service.
Don't get me wrong, I love GOG, but Steam is a great service as well. I own over 200 games on Steam and have had no complaints. BTW, The Dig just got patched and works now so LucasArts must have released the wrong executable.

Hey, don't get me wrong, I have a Steam account. I just choose NOT to support them with my $$$. GOG gets my $$$ because I feel very strongly about a) OWNING your games, and b) being able to BACK UP your games in case of emergency (like your hard drive crashes, GOG is no longer around [perish the thought], etc.)
BJ
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jsdratm: You guys who keep saying that Steam is renting games are ridiculous. People ask that in the forums every day and get the same answer. In the unlikely event that Valve went out of business (they can't be bought since they are a privately held company) they would release a patch for all their games so you can run them without steam. Valve is not going anywhere anytime soon, they are perhaps the most beloved game company in the world and make tons of money. Not to mention that Steam is the most popular digital download service.
Don't get me wrong, I love GOG, but Steam is a great service as well. I own over 200 games on Steam and have had no complaints. BTW, The Dig just got patched and works now so LucasArts must have released the wrong executable.
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BJWanlund: Hey, don't get me wrong, I have a Steam account. I just choose NOT to support them with my $$$. GOG gets my $$$ because I feel very strongly about a) OWNING your games, and b) being able to BACK UP your games in case of emergency (like your hard drive crashes, GOG is no longer around [perish the thought], etc.)
BJ

You do know that you can backup your games on Steam too, right? They even give you a way to do it right through the Steam interface (right-click on game, select "Backup game files"). If you don't want to do that, you can just copy all or portions of your steamapps folder and accomplish the same thing.
Post edited July 08, 2009 by cogadh
Don't you still have to use the client to run that though?
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cogadh: You do know that you can backup your games on Steam too, right? They even give you a way to do it right through the Steam interface (right-click on game, select "Backup game files"). If you don't want to do that, you can just copy all or portions of your steamapps folder and accomplish the same thing.

I meant "back up my games and still actually be able to play them". In other words, what GOG allows me to do with my games when I am done.
BJ
If the CD/DVD is in my possession I own it end of story. If you don't believe you own anything then that's your belief.
Yeah I'm late to the party and others have also said similar but.... When you buy retail all you own is the raw materials. You own the box, but not the design printed on that box, you don't own the text printed on that box. You own the paper the manual was printed on, but you don't own the printed text or images. You own the media, but you don't own the data stored on it.
Never have done. Never will. Unless you stump up the money to actually buy the IP (the same applies for DVDs, books, audio CDs, etc.
For that matter, depsite GOG stating you "own it", you don't even own games bought here. You basically own access to the game for as long as you have a system which supports it.
So ultimately, Steam is not all that different to retail; after all, you only have your retail game for as long as you have access to the data (if you lose the media and the data stored on the hard drive, you lose the game until you repurchase it. If Steam were to ever face the real prospect of going offline, we'll either see what happened to Triton happen (ie, another service will step in and offer access to the game from their service -- sure they make a loss, but gain a potential customer base in return), another company will simply bail out the Steam service and then offer it under their name, or Valve will simply issue the patch that they have stated in the past that will remove the reliance on the authentication servers.
Yes Valve have stated this before, albeit as a forum post which has long since been purged (and if you hunt hard enough, you may very will find such statements in early interviews).
I have committed a sinful deed. I hath purchased Armed and Dangerous and The Dig on steam. I couldn't help myself, but at a low 9.99, and 4.99 respectively I caved.
I know I know... "burn him at the stake" they say... "WITCH! WITCH!" others cry...
In all seriousness though, they run great, and the DRM scuffle aside I don't regret my purchasing avenue.
edit: Oh, and I didn't pirate them...which is oh so tempting... but no, I like to pay for my games...becuase I'm a sucker like that.
Post edited July 09, 2009 by bastont
well thats renewed my temptation to get republic commando, might see what the next gog announcement is & if its nothing I'm into, I might go for it
high rated
Got a few mins after a new release and decided to drop you a line about Lucas Arts. Believe me we are working pretty hard to get their titles here. Right now we can't compete with DD platforms with much bigger audience. LA decided to start with Steam, but we're hoping one day they'll be available for our beloved GOGers as well. The fact that we're specializing in good old games can probably help here ;-).
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w0rma: Got a few mins after a new release and decided to drop you a line about Lucas Arts. Believe me we are working pretty hard to get their titles here. Right now we can't compete with DD platforms with much bigger audience. LA decided to start with Steam, but we're hoping one day they'll be available for our beloved GOGers as well. The fact that we're specializing in good old games can probably help here ;-).

Thanks!